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Nightson
12 Dec 07, 04:57:50 PM
The town awakens to the most gruesome sight they have ever seen. A pile of bodies is laying in the center of the town square. In one part of the pile, the town's guards, still in uniform, are stacked on top of each other. In another part, the town's doctors, and in another, the last remaining members of the town's Masonic society. And in the center of the pile is the robed figure, who some members of the town recognize as the secret agent of the Kingmaker Society, Monkey Pants.

It is a clear message: the assassins are back in town, and there won't be anyone to help the town but themselves.

1. Ad Adsurdum
2. Hoenir
3. ELV
4. Beren
5. Skeptic Tank
6. Tears in the Rain
7. Imaginary Mark
8. Jacey
9. Plognark
10. mefistooooooooo
11. Matt
12. d0t
13. Tom Sawyer
14. damian
15. trillian
16. beyelzu
17. th1nk3r
18. mrickaby
19. Spenser
20. enigma
21. jamesbannon
22. Norseman
23. Deadlokd

All hail Beren the first King.

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 05:05:39 PM
Random Vote: Everyone

Beren
12 Dec 07, 05:06:37 PM
HOLY CRAP

I'M YOUR KING, BITCHES.

Where's my harem?

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 05:07:25 PM
Serious Random Vote: Norseman

th1nk3r
12 Dec 07, 05:07:46 PM
Where's my harem?

Only filthy peasants left.

Deadlokd
12 Dec 07, 05:09:57 PM
Second serious random vote: enigma.

The guy's a conundrum.:)

th1nk3r
12 Dec 07, 05:10:23 PM
I still don't get how this thing works, but what the hell... random vote d0t

I assume the king doesn't know who the kingmaker is. It's going to be pretty fun at the endgame talk, i bet the king will execute the kingmaker quite a few times... :D

Matt
12 Dec 07, 05:10:24 PM
Obligatory vote Beyelzu vote.

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 05:12:38 PM
I've been wondering when this was going to start and now that it has I remember how much I loath the first days of a normal mafia game.

Beren, execute who ever the fuck you want.


Since it is not likely to happen like that what do we do, get to a majority and request he make a decision from there? Every one should probably check in and vote at least one person me thinks.

Ad Absurdum
12 Dec 07, 05:21:54 PM
vote beyelzu.

YOUR GOIN DOWN!!!

:D

Ad Absurdum
12 Dec 07, 05:22:39 PM
I've been wondering when this was going to start and now that it has I remember how much I loath the first days of a normal mafia game.

Beren, execute who ever the fuck you want.


Since it is not likely to happen like that what do we do, get to a majority and request he make a decision from there? Every one should probably check in and vote at least one person me thinks.

Yes, the first few days are boring.

On the other hand.. the mole on your avatar's face is going to drive me completely insane.

Imaginary Mark
12 Dec 07, 05:49:31 PM
vote ELV

So th1nk3r, were you watching everyone's status to see who Nightson was waiting for?

Tears On My Dong
12 Dec 07, 05:52:48 PM
Why the fuck are you guys making random votes? Is that supposed to affect Beren's decision?

Jacey
12 Dec 07, 05:53:05 PM
OMG I wanna start a cabal!

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 05:54:14 PM
Why the fuck are you guys making random votes? Is that supposed to affect Beren's decision?


What do you suggest we do?

enigma
12 Dec 07, 05:57:10 PM
Vote Everyone except Me (and possibly Beren)

Ad Absurdum
12 Dec 07, 06:00:18 PM
Why the fuck are you guys making random votes? Is that supposed to affect Beren's decision?

For fun. :D

th1nk3r
12 Dec 07, 06:01:06 PM
So th1nk3r, were you watching everyone's status to see who Nightson was waiting for?

If I was, do you think i'd still be asking in the peanut gallery? :p

Anyway, there's no PM's, so what's the point? If I can't use it for blackmail, it's not worth finding out :D


OMG I wanna start a cabal!

^^ scum tell, vote Jacey

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 06:01:54 PM
Jacey was trying to say Gay Ball...

Tears On My Dong
12 Dec 07, 06:03:08 PM
vote Beren

Jacey
12 Dec 07, 06:04:10 PM
Should the kingmaker out so we have a confirmed goodie? It was discussed in the pre game thread

Imaginary Mark
12 Dec 07, 06:06:08 PM
So th1nk3r, were you watching everyone's status to see who Nightson was waiting for?

Anyway, there's no PM's, so what's the point? If I can't use it for blackmail, it's not worth finding out :D


Why would you want to blackmail the kingmaker?

ELV
12 Dec 07, 06:10:14 PM
Vote Everyone except Me (and possibly Beren)

See, this isn't random, its the smart thing to do.

vote everyone else

th1nk3r
12 Dec 07, 06:14:25 PM
So th1nk3r, were you watching everyone's status to see who Nightson was waiting for?

Anyway, there's no PM's, so what's the point? If I can't use it for blackmail, it's not worth finding out :D


Why would you want to blackmail the kingmaker?

So he'll invite me into the "secret Kingmaker group" d'oh :cool:

Imaginary Mark
12 Dec 07, 06:21:19 PM
So you're saying that if PMs were allowed, you'd send one to the guy you suspected of being the kingmaker saying: "I know you're the kingmaker. Form a secret group with me or I'll out you in the thread."

Something like that?

Nightson
12 Dec 07, 06:36:05 PM
First Royal Votecount

1. Ad Adsurdum:
2. Hoenir:
3. ELV: Imaginary Mark
4. Beren: Tears
5. Skeptic Tank:
6. Tears in the Rain:
7. Imaginary Mark:
8. Jacey: th1nk3r
9. Plognark:
10. mefisto:
11. Matt:
12. d0t: th1nk3r
13. Tom Sawyer:
14. damian:
15. trillian:
16. beyelzu: Matt, Ad Absurdum
17. th1nk3r:
18. mrickaby:
19. Spenser:
20. enigma: Deadlokd
21. jamesbannon:
22. Norseman: Spenser
23. Deadlokd:

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 06:57:14 PM
accidentally killing the kingmaker should never happen. He should either out, or before the execution, the king should make his intended target known to give him a chance to claim.

Beren
12 Dec 07, 07:03:23 PM
I wonder if I could execute myself. :rolleyes:

Hmm.

No, I don't know the Kingmaker.

Deadlokd
12 Dec 07, 07:05:49 PM
This is hard. I'm supposed to wait to be invited to join the Kingmaker group. At this rate that'll happen sometime after Xmas so I'm going to start my own group.

1. Deadlokd.

Imaginary Mark
12 Dec 07, 07:06:20 PM
Any thoughts on you you'd like to execute, Beren?

Beren
12 Dec 07, 07:07:51 PM
Probably JB. For no reason.

trillian
12 Dec 07, 07:42:21 PM
I did an RNG and got 7 so...
vote: Imaginary Mark

Beren
12 Dec 07, 07:51:59 PM
Oh, that's a good idea.

Beren
12 Dec 07, 07:53:13 PM
So I did the RNG and got 21. It's a sign.

Should I wait for JB to defend himself? Is there really a way to defend yourself?

Matt
12 Dec 07, 07:54:54 PM
The problem with outing the kingmaker is that an assassin could just as easily make the claim. Sure, the real kingmaker could counter claim, but we wouldn't know who is right. We'd either have to keep both in the game until one dies via assassination, or lynch both to be safe.

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 07:55:39 PM
did you edit your post? I could've sworn postspy said "execute JB" or something like that.

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 07:57:41 PM
The problem with outing the kingmaker is that an assassin could just as easily make the claim. Sure, the real kingmaker could counter claim, but we wouldn't know who is right. We'd either have to keep both in the game until one dies via assassination, or lynch both to be safe.

And if that happens 4-6 times, we win. That would be a stupid move by scum, to be honest.

Marcus
12 Dec 07, 08:11:46 PM
Random vote Matt, he is hiding something behind those shades!

Tears On My Dong
12 Dec 07, 08:39:40 PM
The problem with outing the kingmaker is that an assassin could just as easily make the claim. Sure, the real kingmaker could counter claim, but we wouldn't know who is right. We'd either have to keep both in the game until one dies via assassination, or lynch both to be safe.

And if that happens 4-6 times, we win. That would be a stupid move by scum, to be honest.

It would be a stupid move for scum to counter-claim, but if an assassin is about to be executed, he has nothing to lose.

If anyone claims kingmaker, should they call the next king? That would be the way to verify, but obviously the scum would just kill that person so there isn't a good way to back up the claim.

But based on that idea, the kingmaker could name someone he suspects as the next king and see if the scum kill him or not. In that case, the kingmaker might actually choose a different king than the person he named, but that casts doubt on his claim.

This game is going to get interesting after a while.

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 08:40:48 PM
did you edit your post? I could've sworn postspy said "execute JB" or something like that.

I want this answered!

Jacey
12 Dec 07, 08:50:58 PM
Ok, I just reread the role PM again and I can't really see a huge reason I shouldnt out. I am the Kingmaker.

Scum, feel free to kill me, it only hurts your cause because the next Kingmaker will also be a pro-town person.

You're welcome Beren, my liege.

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 09:14:23 PM
Didn't I say earlier some bastard would claim kingmaker for their own self preservation yet narrowing the scum's odds of finding our hero if there is one.

SkepticTank
12 Dec 07, 09:15:58 PM
so why the fuck didn't you make Tears the King?

Alright, trying to think through this. Assuming there are no counterclaims, we have to assume Jacey is good. If there's a counterclaim, then what? Lynch both?

Going with the assumption that you're not lying, why Beren?

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 09:17:00 PM
Didn't I say earlier some bastard would claim kingmaker for their own self preservation yet narrowing the scum's odds of finding our hero if there is one.

Oh yeah, b/c going from like 5% chance to 5.5% chance will be a HUGE asset. :rolleyes:

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 09:17:41 PM
did you edit your post? I could've sworn postspy said "execute JB" or something like that.

I want this answered!

Also, bumping this to keep it on the present page. Rules state no posts can be edited.

Deadlokd
12 Dec 07, 09:20:01 PM
did you edit your post? I could've sworn postspy said "execute JB" or something like that.

I want this answered!

Also, bumping this to keep it on the present page. Rules state no posts can be edited.

I didn't see that. And Postspy doesn't change even after an edit. Are you sure you saw it?

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 09:21:31 PM
Didn't I say earlier some bastard would claim kingmaker for their own self preservation yet narrowing the scum's odds of finding our hero if there is one.

Oh yeah, b/c going from like 5% chance to 5.5% chance will be a HUGE asset. :rolleyes:

Well, I doubt he is lying and scum are not likely to counter claim so every day those odds get better. There is no reason for them to kill him. The only thing that isn't so bad about it is I am not so sure the hero is that great of a role so it may be a wash.

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 09:21:48 PM
I want this answered!

Also, bumping this to keep it on the present page. Rules state no posts can be edited.

I didn't see that. And Postspy doesn't change even after an edit. Are you sure you saw it?

I'm 99.9% sure. I was watching postpy, saw the word "execute" and thought "holy shit, already?" I clicked on the post, and it was different.

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 09:24:31 PM
Also, I want to note I don't really give two shits whether JB is executed, but I'm a stickler for adhering to rules in games like these, no matter the consequence.

Deadlokd
12 Dec 07, 09:24:54 PM
Also, bumping this to keep it on the present page. Rules state no posts can be edited.

I didn't see that. And Postspy doesn't change even after an edit. Are you sure you saw it?

I'm 99.9% sure. I was watching postpy, saw the word "execute" and thought "holy shit, already?" I clicked on the post, and it was different.

You're talking about Matt's post here right?

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 09:25:39 PM
No, this one:

http://www.rantsnraves.org/showthread.php?p=135797#post135797

Deadlokd
12 Dec 07, 09:27:01 PM
Look at post 31. Is that what you saw?

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 09:28:06 PM
Nope!

ELV
12 Dec 07, 09:29:29 PM
The problem with outing the kingmaker is that an assassin could just as easily make the claim. Sure, the real kingmaker could counter claim, but we wouldn't know who is right. We'd either have to keep both in the game until one dies via assassination, or lynch both to be safe.

And if that happens 4-6 times, we win. That would be a stupid move by scum, to be honest.

It would be a stupid move for scum to counter-claim, but if an assassin is about to be executed, he has nothing to lose.

If anyone claims kingmaker, should they call the next king? That would be the way to verify, but obviously the scum would just kill that person so there isn't a good way to back up the claim.

But based on that idea, the kingmaker could name someone he suspects as the next king and see if the scum kill him or not. In that case, the kingmaker might actually choose a different king than the person he named, but that casts doubt on his claim.

This game is going to get interesting after a while.

the KM could list, maybe 3, players that he would choose from as king. that would help minimize the threat of the assassins just killing the person he names

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 09:30:36 PM
Nope!



Aren't you in a rush.

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 09:32:08 PM
Aren't you in a rush.

No, I'm not. You think I'd be that stupid to expose myself on day 1?

I'm just saying what I saw.

Deadlokd
12 Dec 07, 09:32:11 PM
Alright, is there any way to check if editing was done? Matt? Spenser?

Deadlokd
12 Dec 07, 09:33:36 PM
ELV the kingmaker has to send Nightson two names by PM. If he posts them in thread then the assassins can only get one.

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 09:33:52 PM
Not really, I just realized I edited in damian's quote with out thinking. I do think that editing punctuation or adding to posts shouldn't be a problem though...

Deadlokd
12 Dec 07, 09:35:52 PM
What I'm asking is if you can check if Beren edited his post.

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 09:36:36 PM
We'll have to wait until Beren comes back and verifies, I guess. It just jumped out at me because of this in the rules:

"Once the day's King has arrived at their decision of who to kill, they must post EXECUTE: NAME in bolded and all capital letters. After that post has occurred, no more posts will be allowed, not even from the King. The King may not change their mind after an execution order has occurred, so BE SURE if you want to execute someone."

"Don't edit/delete previously submitted posts. Accidental double posts are the only exception."

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 09:37:09 PM
Aren't you in a rush.

No, I'm not. You think I'd be that stupid to expose myself on day 1?

Man, I feel like I have said something like this before. I hear you though, if Beren did post an execution it shouldn't be able to be changed. I suppose we need to hear from him.

On the execution note I think we need to get people here posting their psuedo-votes otherwise we are never going to have anything to look back on. Either that or kill the quiet ones, I still feel like they are detrimental to this game.

Deadlokd
12 Dec 07, 09:39:18 PM
And I'm sure there has to be at least 24 hours for a day, lest some poor sod get executed before defending him/herself.

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 09:40:40 PM
"Days will last a minimum of 24 real-life hours. There should always be a chance for discussion before an execution."

You're right, so the issue is moot.

Hoenir
12 Dec 07, 09:41:06 PM
I never saw anything edited, although I'm just refreshing the screen. I looked through Beren's posts in other threads and didn't see anything like that.

I'm still trying to figure out who to vote for right now. It seems odd, to me at least, to just choose randomly.

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 09:41:26 PM
And I'm sure there has to be at least 24 hours for a day, lest some poor sod get executed before defending him/herself.

Oh I agree with that for sure, unless we catch some one slipping.

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 09:43:24 PM
Anyway, I mostly want to know now for my own sanity.

And with that, good night!

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 09:43:26 PM
"Days will last a minimum of 24 real-life hours. There should always be a chance for discussion before an execution."

You're right, so the issue is moot.

Wait what? Is this really a rule cause that seems pretty lame if we are all pretty sure we cornered scum. Nightson likes his games to last forever.

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 09:44:22 PM
"Days will last a minimum of 24 real-life hours. There should always be a chance for discussion before an execution."

You're right, so the issue is moot.

Wait what? Is this really a rule cause that seems pretty lame if we are all pretty sure we cornered scum. Nightson likes his games to last forever.

Yeah, I quoted that directly from the rules. Yes, that would be lame if we wanted to end a day early, but whatever.

the WORST elf
12 Dec 07, 09:45:33 PM
Actually, maybe it means the execute order is indeed final, but he won't end the day until after more discussion.

He needs to clarify this.

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 09:45:54 PM
I never saw anything edited, although I'm just refreshing the screen. I looked through Beren's posts in other threads and didn't see anything like that.

I'm still trying to figure out who to vote for right now. It seems odd, to me at least, to just choose randomly.

Welcome to Mafia. The first few days we are usually pretty clueless and they tend to drag on a bit. It gets more interesting later when we eventually find scum, then we go back and see if we can see any patterns from others that related to said scum.

ELV
12 Dec 07, 09:48:24 PM
ELV the kingmaker has to send Nightson two names by PM. If he posts them in thread then the assassins can only get one.

ah yes, i don't think anyone else mentioned that

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 09:53:12 PM
Or we can convince beren to lynch anyone who doesn't have a king themed avatar!!! :ninja:

Nightson
12 Dec 07, 09:54:40 PM
Actually, maybe it means the execute order is indeed final, but he won't end the day until after more discussion.

He needs to clarify this.

If the King can't be on when the 24 hours would be up, he can state so and ask that his execution be carried out at the 24 hours mark. Other then that, any execution order posted before 24 hours have passed since the days opening post won't count.

Spenser
12 Dec 07, 10:06:01 PM
Fuck dude, this shit is going to drag late game.

Hoenir
12 Dec 07, 10:16:42 PM
Welcome to Mafia. The first few days we are usually pretty clueless and they tend to drag on a bit. It gets more interesting later when we eventually find scum, then we go back and see if we can see any patterns from others that related to said scum.

And everyone else has already played this game before. They know what to look for, even from the beginning. I'm still learning. But you have to start somewhere. In that case, I'll start with a random vote. So vote Deadlokd.

trillian
12 Dec 07, 10:42:32 PM
Now... I read the rules but I don't really "get" it yet. Our strategy is to find the scum by the votes only, right? And we should see those patterns because we get the true identity of the King's choice for execution and the night kills, right? (I assume we have to get that but it doesn't say)

This is just weird without any way to get solid info.

Can we guess what the proper amount of scum would be in this game?

trillian
12 Dec 07, 10:44:34 PM
<------------Best Female Avatar

Deadlokd
12 Dec 07, 11:27:37 PM
Welcome to Mafia. The first few days we are usually pretty clueless and they tend to drag on a bit. It gets more interesting later when we eventually find scum, then we go back and see if we can see any patterns from others that related to said scum.

And everyone else has already played this game before. They know what to look for, even from the beginning. I'm still learning. But you have to start somewhere. In that case, I'll start with a random vote. So vote Deadlokd.

Yay I'm famous! I'm also town so unvote please.

jamesbannon
13 Dec 07, 02:14:34 AM
Boy page 2 already and nobody's really said anything except that the King wants to execute me for some reason. Oh well, can't please everybody I suppose.

The only person whose behaving a bit oddly at the moment is Damian so vote Damian.

d0t
13 Dec 07, 03:41:54 AM
Good morning all. This should be interesting. :)



$ irb
irb(main):001:0> rand(23)+1
=> 17


random vote: thinker (what a coincidence, huh?)

mrickaby
13 Dec 07, 03:59:46 AM
This game is going to be confusing as hell, it usually takes me 3-4 days to get reads on anybody, and with not solid information there is nothing to go on until then.

So, not a random vote, but based on my HIGHLY scientific method : vote: dOt

(Okay, so I closed my eyes and pointed at the screen...)

Tom Sawyer
13 Dec 07, 05:13:54 AM
My random vote got Imaginary Mark.

Considering how lucky I am, it's probably a good bet that he's scum.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 05:18:59 AM
Christ, Damian, I edited that post in less than 5 seconds, after I remembered the 24 hour rule. You bastard. :p What was that about, jumping all over me?

My execute button is getting itchy.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 05:20:16 AM
Who hasn't posted yet? I'm probably just going to kill someone who hasn't posted in like the next hour.

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 05:29:24 AM
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w190/Deadlokd/Beren.jpg

Twice Beren? Whoever you execute, you're dead tomorrow.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 05:33:57 AM
:rolleyes:

Now that's just being annoying. I like how the interest isn't on who to lynch, it's on, oh snap, he edited his post 5 seconds after he made it.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 05:37:05 AM
And the really annoying thing is that I should even execute you just for being stupid. It's too showy, there's no way you're scum.

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 05:37:11 AM
When the rule is made and accepted and then you break the rule and then you are reminded about it and then two minutes later you break it again. Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 05:40:30 AM
When the rule is made and accepted and then you break the rule and then you are reminded about it and then two minutes later you break it again. Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.

...You're suggesting *I'm* scum?

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 05:42:10 AM
Aren't you? Why break the same basic rule twice?

Beren
13 Dec 07, 05:43:01 AM
Aren't you? Why break the same basic rule twice?

Coincidence? That's what you said.

Nightson
13 Dec 07, 05:44:09 AM
But seriously now, don't edit posts. If you have to edit posts, make a big EDIT and absolutely do not change what you initially wrote down.

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 05:45:48 AM
That was a faecetious remark stolen from a James Bond book, You Only Live Twice I think. Here's another one stolen from an ass, "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice......I won't be fooled again."

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 05:49:35 AM
I've been coming back to this thread all day looking for anything suspicious. If I'm wrong.......then we've lost one town. If not...........

Beren
13 Dec 07, 05:50:47 AM
So, back to, you know, the actual game. Has anyone not posted yet in the tread? I looked through the list, and I though I saw everyone on it posting at some point. Which is sad, takes a way a route of possibility.

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 05:53:21 AM
Execute away King Beren. It's late, I'm going to bed.

Did that need a comma?

Beren
13 Dec 07, 05:54:08 AM
Execute away King Beren. It's late, I'm going to bed.

Did that need a comma?

You're like the least helpful person, ever. :p

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 05:56:20 AM
Weren't you there in the last game? :p I'm the most helpful person here right now. You know, out of the eight people viewing this thread.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 06:00:37 AM
Can the claimed Kingmaker post his next two King choices in the thread, as a test to see who he is? That would be nice. Like to have that in before the execute, if you're willing.

Marcus
13 Dec 07, 06:42:25 AM
Wouldn't that just be giving extra knowledge to the scum players?

Beren
13 Dec 07, 06:51:36 AM
Wouldn't that just be giving extra knowledge to the scum players?

Does it matter? It'll prove the Kingmaker for us, and not really give them anything that matters.

Marcus
13 Dec 07, 07:01:28 AM
If I were scum, and there was a townie, and a scum on the list, who do you think I would NK, and who would live on to be the next king?

Lack of a counter claim should be enough especially today, as there is no chance that the KM got NK'd.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 07:38:54 AM
If I were scum, and there was a townie, and a scum on the list, who do you think I would NK, and who would live on to be the next king?

Lack of a counter claim should be enough especially today, as there is no chance that the KM got NK'd.

Yeah, I thought of that. It still gives us info on who the KM is, but you're right, it's probably not worth it.

Any ideas on who to kill, anyone?

Norseman
13 Dec 07, 07:51:36 AM
Since I know I'm not an assassin, but there's probably a 1 in 20ish chance (possibly increased by this action?) that I'm a hero, I propose that you execute me so we can find out.

jamesbannon
13 Dec 07, 08:18:24 AM
Question for Nightson, just for clarification. If we majority vote to lynch the king is he duty bound to execute himself? I would have said not but I just wanted to be sure.

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 08:25:01 AM
Here's another one stolen from an ass, "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice......I won't be fooled again."

If you're gonna quote someone fucking up a quote, you better quote his fuckup correctly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qDuG0ZYD5I&feature=related

(or just link the video)

Hah, I'll vote Deadlokd just for that. Lame reasoning, I know, but got nothing else at this point.

ELV
13 Dec 07, 08:25:46 AM
That would be ridiculous, James.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 08:26:22 AM
Well, I'm currently between ST and Deadlokd, so that's kind of funny. :p

Beren
13 Dec 07, 08:26:55 AM
Question for Nightson, just for clarification. If we majority vote to lynch the king is he duty bound to execute himself? I would have said not but I just wanted to be sure.

I highly doubt it. Although, if everyone votes for me I'll kill myself.

Tears On My Dong
13 Dec 07, 08:27:50 AM
Votes are just suggestions. The king executes whoever he wants. It's all there in the rules(which also say not to edit your posts).

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 08:28:32 AM
I still don't understand the rules. Is the king only king for a day?

And there's a group of kingmakers? So Jacey gets to recruit? But scum can't be in the group, so if he recruits scum, he finds out or what?

Beren
13 Dec 07, 08:31:06 AM
I thought there was only one kingmaker, period? And it moves to someone new if he dies? Or something? The rules are very confusing.

I assumed I was king just for a day, too.

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 08:36:44 AM
Well, I'm currently between ST and Deadlokd, so that's kind of funny. :p

Reasoning?

Anyway, here's the current votes and post counts. We have two silent players, so I'll unvote Deadlokd, and vote Plognark & Beyelzu

Lynch the silent ones, if nothing else it forces everyone to participate.


1. Ad Adsurdum - Beyelzu 3
2. Hoenir - deadlokd 2
3. ELV - 4
4. Beren - jamesbannon??? 18
5. Skeptic Tank - Deadlokd, Plognark, Beyelzu 4
6. Tears in the Rain - Beren 4
7. Imaginary Mark - ELV 4
8. Jacey - 3
9. Plognark -
10. mefistooooooooo - Matt 3
11. Matt - Beyelzu 2
12. d0t thinkr - 1
13. Tom Sawyer - Imaginary Mark 1
14. damian - 16
15. trillian - Imaginary Mark 3
16. beyelzu -
17. th1nk3r - d0t; Jacey 4
18. mrickaby - d0t 1
19. Spenser - Norseman 15
20. enigma - 1
21. jamesbannon - damian 2
22. Norseman - 1
23. Deadlokd - Enigma 17

Plognark
13 Dec 07, 08:46:54 AM
Since I know I'm not an assassin, but there's probably a 1 in 20ish chance (possibly increased by this action?) that I'm a hero, I propose that you execute me so we can find out.

Ok! Vote: Norseman! :SNARKY:

Tears On My Dong
13 Dec 07, 08:47:10 AM
It's pretty simple. The kingmaker chooses a new king each day. That king listens to what everyone has to say and then executes someone. If the kingmaker dies, a new one is selected randomly. The assassins can become king but not kingmaker. One person cannot be king 2 days in a row.

Spenser
13 Dec 07, 08:47:24 AM
I don't think we should lynch Plog till we get to see what avatar he draws up for this game. I may have random voted Norseman but the "execute me" is an odd ploy. You can remove the random part of my vote.

jamesbannon
13 Dec 07, 08:49:16 AM
I still don't understand the rules. Is the king only king for a day?

And there's a group of kingmakers? So Jacey gets to recruit? But scum can't be in the group, so if he recruits scum, he finds out or what?
The king maker has to nominate after each execution, so presumably the current king is only allowed to execute once.

ELV
13 Dec 07, 08:49:38 AM
I guess I'll unvote jacey unless someone counterclaims KM

Norseman
13 Dec 07, 08:53:40 AM
Oh yeah, I forgot to do the bold vote thing.
Vote:Norseman

the WORST elf
13 Dec 07, 09:01:32 AM
Beyelzu is usually all over these games like stink on poop, butlast time he was god killed for non-participation. So going with that continuing trend, vote Beyelzu.

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 09:09:04 AM
Plog showed up, so unvote Plognark.

Norseman's move is interesting. If he is the hero, killing him will actually kill the king instead, so he's playing some kind of mind game by offering himself up as a victim.

No king will really want to kill him just in case he is the Hero. That would be a ballsy move for a scum player, but it's a little early in the game to try that.

Norseman
13 Dec 07, 09:14:03 AM
Well, I figure just about everyone is going to die if we choose people randomly. However, innocents have slightly higher odds of surviving execution than assassins do, because they may be a hero. Thus, if I have to the target of either assassination or execution, my best bet is with execution. Offering myself up may improve my odds a bit more, but I don't know. Either way, I'll probably die. This gives me a shot at least.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 09:26:28 AM
That makes no sense, you may actually kill the person assassinating without them killing you. You're clearly not the hero.

ST, you jumping on Jacey for claiming KM was a bit odd, and the jumping on him for making me king. Still, not enough to kill you on.

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 09:34:29 AM
ST, you jumping on Jacey for claiming KM was a bit odd, and the jumping on him for making me king. Still, not enough to kill you on.

Did I jump on him? I just questioned why he choose you instead of Tears. It was practically a rule until 2 or 3 games ago that we always make Tears the first Mayor.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 09:44:50 AM
ST, you jumping on Jacey for claiming KM was a bit odd, and the jumping on him for making me king. Still, not enough to kill you on.

Did I jump on him? I just questioned why he choose you instead of Tears. It was practically a rule until 2 or 3 games ago that we always make Tears the first Mayor.

Fair enough.

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 09:45:28 AM
Trill put this in the peanut gallery thread....


I am in Big Bear tonight through Sunday. They don't have internet in the cabin! I will bring my computer anyway in case I can steal a signal but just don't kill me or make me King or anything.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 09:45:29 AM
I don't want this day to last forever, but I was hoping for some sort of majority decision too. Idk. Might just have to lynch someone not contributing soon.

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 09:46:50 AM
I'm still a n00b at this, but in every non-PM game I've played, the first day has always taken at least 48 hours.

Your call though, your majesty.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 09:47:47 AM
Suppose, I just can't see anything actually happening.

Jacey
13 Dec 07, 09:47:57 AM
I submitted two names to Nightson, I'll keep the other name to myself. I'm not going to post who I'm submitting as king. I've thought it through and there's no logical reason to kill me, so I outed.

I picked Beren because I wanted someone who's played a few games but is not involved in the usual suspicion stuff. That slashed about half the list. The night 0 King really means nothing, the game thread hadn't opened yet so it's not like I was basing the pick on anything. After tonight it may start meaning something.

I'm still a bit confused about the voting etc, but I've got to go so I will check later. I'm in Massachusetts right now, big snowstorm expected tonight and I'll be busy all day, if I'm not on tonight it's because there's no power.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 09:50:01 AM
Hopefully we won't execute one of the people you submitted. :p

P.S. Being King first sucks, but thanks for the vote of confidence.

jamesbannon
13 Dec 07, 09:55:22 AM
I don't think our vote really matters that much as the king doesn't have to go with the majority. Of course if he / she doesn't and executes a townie then he / she may get executed next round.

Jacey, I don't think it's a particularly good idea not giving at least one name. If we have a townie King and he doesn't know who the other townies are apart from the King maker then he / she might execute the wrong person by mistake. It doesn't matter for the scum since they know who each other are anyway.

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 10:06:42 AM
Jacey, I don't think it's a particularly good idea not giving at least one name. If we have a townie King and he doesn't know who the other townies are apart from the King maker then he / she might execute the wrong person by mistake. It doesn't matter for the scum since they know who each other are anyway.

Huh?

Jacey doesn't know anymore than the rest of us. How does making his picks public help?

It can only help the scum, because they can kill the townie pick, and make one of their own king (assuming there's at least one scum player in the list Jacey provides).

jamesbannon
13 Dec 07, 10:11:31 AM
Scum know each other and Townies don't. If Jacey makes a scum pick and outs both picks and the scum execute one of them, what does that say about the other?

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 10:20:58 AM
Nothing since we don't know if his pick contains scum or not. If he outs two townies, and the scum NK one of them, do we assume the other is scum?

Spenser
13 Dec 07, 10:33:27 AM
Hopefully we won't execute one of the people you submitted. :p

P.S. Being King first sucks, but thanks for the vote of confidence.

Huh, he just said you meant nothing. :laughing:



Norseman, if you are not an assassin the lynching you because you might be the hero is retarded. The king has better odds of hitting an assassin than the hero at this point which is favorable to the town, as well as odds are that the king is not an assassin himself so you're thinking needs some fine tuning.

That or its a n00b ploy to feign ignorant innocence. Either way its not a smooth move.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 10:36:36 AM
Huh, he just said you meant nothing.

My sarcasm didn't come through on my post. ;)

So. Yeah. Norseman seems to not be terribly bright... agreed.

I still have no real idea who to kill.

Ad Absurdum
13 Dec 07, 10:37:27 AM
Hey guys, posting from school. Just checking into the game to make sure you don't get suspicious of me. :P

jamesbannon
13 Dec 07, 10:38:01 AM
Nothing since we don't know if his pick contains scum or not. If he outs two townies, and the scum NK one of them, do we assume the other is scum?
What is there to "out" precisely? There are no specials in the game other than the King, the King Maker and the assassins. Outing someone as "town" means nothing since the scum already know who the townies are.

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 10:38:21 AM
I still have no real idea who to kill.

That's ok, you got six hours before you're even allowed to choose, and you can drag it on for a while longer if you want.

Spenser
13 Dec 07, 10:58:49 AM
If I fucked two chicks in the butt same night would that make me an ass-ass-man?

jamesbannon
13 Dec 07, 10:58:54 AM
Will be off-line for a few hours. Back probably tomorrow if not later tonight.

ELV
13 Dec 07, 11:05:01 AM
Nothing since we don't know if his pick contains scum or not. If he outs two townies, and the scum NK one of them, do we assume the other is scum?
What is there to "out" precisely? There are no specials in the game other than the King, the King Maker and the assassins. Outing someone as "town" means nothing since the scum already know who the townies are.

I think out in this context means stating who he is making the king and the backup king

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 11:12:33 AM
Ok, I'm officially voting JamesBannon for retard logic.



Scum know each other and Townies don't. If Jacey makes a scum pick and outs both picks and the scum execute one of them, what does that say about the other?

How will we know if one of his picks is scum????



Nothing since we don't know if his pick contains scum or not. If he outs two townies, and the scum NK one of them, do we assume the other is scum?
What is there to "out" precisely? There are no specials in the game other than the King, the King Maker and the assassins. Outing someone as "town" means nothing since the scum already know who the townies are.


Jacey announces his two candidates for king
Scenario 1: Both scum (not likely).
scum move: NK some other townie
Next king: scum

Scenario 2: 1 scum, 1 townie.
scum move: NK the townie
next king: scum
town move: add king to list to be killed in the future when a townie is king next

Scenario 3a: both townies
scum move: kill one of the townies
next king: townie, but we assume it's scenario 2 above????

Scenario 3b: both townies
scum move: leave both alive
next king: townie but we assume it's scenario 1 above???

Jacey outing who he's gonna nominate for king gives us no information, and puts scum in control of possibly putting a scum king in power guaranteeing them two town kills the next night, and increasing their chances of getting another scum king.

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 11:15:58 AM
I think out in this context means stating who he is making the king and the backup king

Exactly, and I thought that was obvious since jamesb used it in that context first.


Scum know each other and Townies don't. If Jacey makes a scum pick and outs both picks and the scum execute one of them, what does that say about the other?

th1nk3r
13 Dec 07, 12:23:09 PM
I still don't get what's the deal with the sooper sekret kingmaker group. how does that work? Same deal as the king, meaning the kingmaker nominates who he wants, but takes advice? And what happens when the kingmaker dies? How is it decided who's the next kingamker and how can we use the fact that scum can't be kingmakers to gain information? If it's a nomination system and not a random choice, we should nominate suspected scum as next kingmakers, and see what happens when the current maker dies.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 12:26:24 PM
WTB rules classification.

Blargh. I'm going to go take a final. I'll be back in a few hours. This is frustrating.

the WORST elf
13 Dec 07, 12:31:43 PM
I still don't get what's the deal with the sooper sekret kingmaker group. how does that work? Same deal as the king, meaning the kingmaker nominates who he wants, but takes advice? And what happens when the kingmaker dies? How is it decided who's the next kingamker and how can we use the fact that scum can't be kingmakers to gain information? If it's a nomination system and not a random choice, we should nominate suspected scum as next kingmakers, and see what happens when the current maker dies.

I thought kingmakers would be randomly selected.

Regardless, it's an interesting point. Going after outed kingmakers is a bad move on the part of scum, because it gives the town a knowledge base to work from if the next kingmaker outs again. Town can look at voting patterns and such based on every killed kingmaker and the living outed kingmaker. e.g., If they kill 3, 4, or 5 kingmakers, we can look at who all of those guys were suspicious of, who they voted for, etc. Further, if we force their hand in this manner, we gain another trusted good guy if the next one outs. We are going to lose someone at night no matter what, why not the kingmaker? We lose nothing, because the next day we have a new kingmaker that has to be good, and we know not to lynch him, so it narrows down our suspects. Rinse and repeat.

It's minor information, but better than what is usually available in mafia.

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 12:52:53 PM
I thought kingmakers would be randomly selected.


That's my understanding too (radom excluding scum, of course)


Regardless, it's an interesting point. Going after outed kingmakers is a bad move on the part of scum, because it gives the town a knowledge base to work from if the next kingmaker outs again.

Yeah, so nobody is going to go after an outed kingmaker in public... unless there are conflicting claims...

So I don't see how it can help us.

Say Jacey gets killed, and you become the next kingmaker and out yourself, you expect to get information about people who voted for you before you outed?

the WORST elf
13 Dec 07, 01:12:37 PM
I'm not saying it's conclusive information, but it's better than nothing.

Plus, an outed kingmaker is one less suspect. As the game goes on, even a single confirmed good could be valuable.

the WORST elf
13 Dec 07, 01:16:50 PM
Let me clarify.

Say our pool of suspects is 2-3 guys that look really scummy, and town decides that one of them should be executed the next day. If that day arrives and 1 guy is now the kingmaker, he's cleared and it narrows things down for the king.

Anyway, this is not something we can control. I was just suggesting it as a reason why I think killing the kingmaker is a futile move for the scum. They gain nothing by it.

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 01:30:37 PM
Anyway, this is not something we can control. I was just suggesting it as a reason why I think killing the kingmaker is a futile move for the scum. They gain nothing by it.

... unless the kingmaker has everyone figured out, and is good at not nominating scum for kingship then they might want to off him and get a more naive kingmaker in the position.

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 01:32:34 PM
Say our pool of suspects is 2-3 guys that look really scummy, and town decides that one of them should be executed the next day. If that day arrives and 1 guy is now the kingmaker, he's cleared and it narrows things down for the king.

He's only cleared if he's the only one who claims kingmaker. Yeah, this is gonna get interesting toward the end.

jamesbannon
13 Dec 07, 02:10:08 PM
The only persons who gain anything by secrecy in this game are members of the scum faction. They know who the town are. All they need to do is eliminate each townie in turn and, even with a townie king, the odds are that, initially at least, they get 2 kills a day. What is the point then of townies hiding who they are? We have no specials other than the King Maker.

Norseman
13 Dec 07, 02:12:12 PM
In a private vote, with results revealed only after everyone has cast their vote, assassins probably won't vote to execute other assassins. Without knowing the previous votes, they won't want to risk inadvertently killing each other, because random chance may get to them before it will get to us, depending on how many there are. If the kingmaker writes a will or something, so that when he dies, we find out that he was a kingmaker, we'll be able to determine that he was a good guy. We know that assassins will vote to kill good guys more frequently than they will vote to kill assassins, and we know assassins will probably receive kill votes less frequently than good guys. So, every time a kingmaker dies, we learn that he was a good guy, and we can see who voted for him to die the most. When the next kingmaker dies, the same, and so on. This works even if they are executed, provided there is some way to confirm that they actually were the kingmaker. In addition, every time a person is night-killed, we know they were almost certainly a good guy. Again, if the assassins are likely to succumb to random chance, they can't risk voting for each other. So, again, this lets us see who is voting for good guys the most.

Furthermore, assassins would benefit from voting together against the same innocent people. That practice helps to ensure that the highest vote is always for an innocent person, and thus no assassin would ever receive the highest kill vote. By watching which people group up their votes the most, and by watching who they group their votes up the most with, we can assign probabilities for which people are working together.

By looking at all of this, we force the assassins to vote randomly, and risk dying randomly, or to vote intentionally, and risk getting too obvious and killed.

the WORST elf
13 Dec 07, 02:14:52 PM
you're like the bastard love child of Th1nk3r and Beyelzu.

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 02:21:10 PM
I'm not advocating that townies hide who they are, but if the kingmaker announces who he's nominating for king, that can help scum more than it helps the town.

It can enable the scum to get one of their own as king which all but guarantees they get two kills on that night.


eta: this was in response to JamesBannon's posts, two above.

Norseman
13 Dec 07, 02:23:44 PM
you're like the bastard love child of Th1nk3r and Beyelzu.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

SkepticTank
13 Dec 07, 02:24:49 PM
you're like the bastard love child of Th1nk3r and Beyelzu.

No shit. That's like the most convoluted th1nk_r1ng I've seen yet.

the WORST elf
13 Dec 07, 02:26:25 PM
you're like the bastard love child of Th1nk3r and Beyelzu.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

stick around for a few games and you'll find out!

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 02:33:38 PM
Look, if the kingmaker outs his next choices it's only going to help scum. The way we're thinking we're going to execute the people that don't get assassinated by the scum when the KM names them. So the smart thing for the scum to do would be to leave anyone on the King shortlist alone. They assassinate someone else (obviously not scum, cause they know who they are) and we're left thinking that the two people nominated are scum and execute them in the following two days. So in two days we lose up to four town, two to the scum and two to our own stupidity.

This game is sucky hard. In fact, it's almost guaranteed that the scum will win. Town has no way to prove itself, except by a silver tongue, and the non-eloquent will be executed quick smart. All town has on their side is numbers. I vote for random executions for the first couple of days until we get other reactions to those executions.

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 02:36:41 PM
The problem with your reasoning Norseman is that the scum don't have to get the kingmaker executed. They can do it themselves. I voted for enigma back on page one. Now, if Jacey gets assassinated and enigma becomes KM then gets assassinated himself, I'm going to look like a suspect. Purely on a random pick.

Spenser
13 Dec 07, 02:37:34 PM
In a private vote, with results revealed only after everyone has cast their vote, assassins probably won't vote to execute other assassins. Without knowing the previous votes, they won't want to risk inadvertently killing each other, because random chance may get to them before it will get to us, depending on how many there are. If the kingmaker writes a will or something, so that when he dies, we find out that he was a kingmaker, we'll be able to determine that he was a good guy. We know that assassins will vote to kill good guys more frequently than they will vote to kill assassins, and we know assassins will probably receive kill votes less frequently than good guys. So, every time a kingmaker dies, we learn that he was a good guy, and we can see who voted for him to die the most. When the next kingmaker dies, the same, and so on. This works even if they are executed, provided there is some way to confirm that they actually were the kingmaker. In addition, every time a person is night-killed, we know they were almost certainly a good guy. Again, if the assassins are likely to succumb to random chance, they can't risk voting for each other. So, again, this lets us see who is voting for good guys the most.

Furthermore, assassins would benefit from voting together against the same innocent people. That practice helps to ensure that the highest vote is always for an innocent person, and thus no assassin would ever receive the highest kill vote. By watching which people group up their votes the most, and by watching who they group their votes up the most with, we can assign probabilities for which people are working together.

By looking at all of this, we force the assassins to vote randomly, and risk dying randomly, or to vote intentionally, and risk getting too obvious and killed.

Clearly you haven't chosen the wine in front of me.

Spenser
13 Dec 07, 02:39:35 PM
The problem with your reasoning Norseman is that the scum don't have to get the kingmaker executed. They can do it themselves. I voted for enigma back on page one. Now, if Jacey gets assassinated and enigma becomes KM then gets assassinated himself, I'm going to look like a suspect. Purely on a random pick.

There is more than one problem with his reasoning but put it simply all scum have to do is vote for other scum who don't have all the many votes on them and they are no in the clear (to hide from his logic).

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 02:45:45 PM
If I was scum, I'd have this game wrapped in a week.

Hoenir
13 Dec 07, 02:48:57 PM
There is more than one problem with his reasoning but put it simply all scum have to do is vote for other scum who don't have all the many votes on them and they are no in the clear (to hide from his logic).

And this with the fact that the King can choose anyone he wants, its going to be quite difficult to track down who is who. If the King was an assassin, he only has to choose the town member that received the most votes. The votes don't matter much in who gets killed on one night.

Is it said how many assassins that we are trying to kill yet. I don't remember reading it in the rules.

Matt
13 Dec 07, 02:49:06 PM
Why the fuck do we need to wait to tomorrow to start the second day? Today's completely random guess on the part of Beren only. There's no fucking reason for anyone to even bother pretending to play today.

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 02:51:32 PM
We're waiting for him to get online. Then he execute some random player.

Norseman
13 Dec 07, 02:54:07 PM
The problem with your reasoning Norseman is that the scum don't have to get the kingmaker executed. They can do it themselves. I voted for enigma back on page one. Now, if Jacey gets assassinated and enigma becomes KM then gets assassinated himself, I'm going to look like a suspect. Purely on a random pick.

Statistical significance



There is more than one problem with his reasoning but put it simply all scum have to do is vote for other scum who don't have all the many votes on them and they are no in the clear (to hide from his logic).

I already addressed that. In fact, I addressed that in my first sentence.

"In a private vote, with results revealed only after everyone has cast their vote..."

They will have no idea whether or not voting for another assassin might end up killing him.

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 02:56:57 PM
The problem with your reasoning Norseman is that the scum don't have to get the kingmaker executed. They can do it themselves. I voted for enigma back on page one. Now, if Jacey gets assassinated and enigma becomes KM then gets assassinated himself, I'm going to look like a suspect. Purely on a random pick.

Statistical significance



There is more than one problem with his reasoning but put it simply all scum have to do is vote for other scum who don't have all the many votes on them and they are no in the clear (to hide from his logic).

I already addressed that. In fact, I addressed that in my first sentence.

"In a private vote, with results revealed only after everyone has cast their vote..."

They will have no idea whether or not voting for another assassin might end up killing him.

Great except that;

a) We can't PM.

b) The king is under no obligation to execute the person with the highest number of votes.

mrickaby
13 Dec 07, 03:00:04 PM
I really don't think we are going to figure anything out today. Just want to get this day over so we have some more information tomorrow.

Marcus
13 Dec 07, 03:08:10 PM
I do not like the idea of a completely random vote. We should have discussion, and public voting today and everyday. On the subsequent days, this discussion will be what the town lives and dies on.

If the king does not kill whomever the town selects, he should be the number one selection the next day, unless he is selects a scum to kill due to his kingly wisdom.

Tears On My Dong
13 Dec 07, 03:08:20 PM
I agree with ST that outing the names helps the scum. I also think outing as kingmaker is a bad policy because the scum can just kill the kingmaker every time and then we gain no information from their kills.

Norseman, what damian is saying is that your analysis is overly complicated(th1nk3r) and makes no fucking sense(beyelzu).

vote beyelzu for non-participation
vote jamesbannon for screwy logic

Norseman
13 Dec 07, 03:12:04 PM
True, it seems there's no way to have a private discussion. Then, instead of having the king make the decision, I think we should leave the decision of who to kill to the kingmaker. He's the only good guy we know of. If Beren is an assassin, we have better odds with a random kill choice from the king maker.

Norseman
13 Dec 07, 03:13:16 PM
Previous post was directed at Deadlokd.

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 03:18:11 PM
Devil's advocate again.

That requires the KM to out himself each time, making him a prime target. And what if we have two people claiming KM?

This day has gone on long enough. All we have is circular logic, and even there we don't have much. I call for an execution and this day to end.

Norseman
13 Dec 07, 03:29:03 PM
Devil's advocate again.


I appreciate it. It's easier to think clearly when someone is poking holes in mushy ideas.



That requires the KM to out himself each time, making him a prime target. And what if we have two people claiming KM?

This day has gone on long enough. All we have is circular logic, and even there we don't have much. I call for an execution and this day to end.

There's no reason it makes the KM a prime target. The assassins already know who all the good guys are, and they're going to kill one anyway. They don't get anything extra from killing the KM. They might get some extra advantage from killing people who are good at identifying them, or good at strategizing ways to make their job more difficult. Identifying himself makes the KM less of a target since he won't be randomly selected for execution.

If two people claim they are the kingmaker, then the king needs to kill both of them, because one is obviously an assassin, and KMs are expendable. Because of that, no assassin will try it. Townies manage only to confuse things for the other townies if they pretend to be the KM, so they won't bother.

Marcus
13 Dec 07, 03:31:01 PM
unvote
vote deadlokd For trying to rush the kill. While we certainly can't achieve a 100% chance of a scum kill today, we can come closer than random. We need more discussion, and AFAIC, people wanting to rush the lynch are prime targets.

How many games have we had here on RnR where we got a scum day one, no special powers used? It was all discussion.

jamesbannon
13 Dec 07, 03:38:38 PM
I agree with ST that outing the names helps the scum. I also think outing as kingmaker is a bad policy because the scum can just kill the kingmaker every time and then we gain no information from their kills.

Norseman, what damian is saying is that your analysis is overly complicated(th1nk3r) and makes no fucking sense(beyelzu).

vote beyelzu for non-participation
vote jamesbannon for screwy logic

Well, I'm not thinking especially well at the moment. Perhaps the king might execute me today to avoid the hassle. Of course that would be 1 townie down but there you go.

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 03:49:03 PM
unvote
vote deadlokd For trying to rush the kill. While we certainly can't achieve a 100% chance of a scum kill today, we can come closer than random. We need more discussion, and AFAIC, people wanting to rush the lynch are prime targets.

How many games have we had here on RnR where we got a scum day one, no special powers used? It was all discussion.

:p to you too.

This has gone on for eight pages and we don't know squat. We aren't going to know squat for days because there just isn't any information. This day is getting boring, I want it done with. If I was scum I'd be biding my time not pushing myself to the front. Or is this more WIFOM:ninja:? You decide.

ELV
13 Dec 07, 03:51:29 PM
(sorry if this post may be a bit late, I had to restart my computer to get the internet to work :mad:)




There's no reason it makes the KM a prime target.

It allows the assassins to make a kill that gives the town no information. Killings happen for a reason and if that reason is that the target is kingmaker, no further insight can be gained as there would be if a random townsperson with enemies and allies were killed.

If the KM keeps outing themselves, the assassins could kill the KM each night and cause the town's numbers to dwindle without betraying anything about who they may be.

beyelzu
13 Dec 07, 03:51:39 PM
i see i got a not participating vote


sorry i just borrowed dragon quest for ps2 and have been playing it.

beyelzu
13 Dec 07, 03:52:54 PM
(sorry if this post may be a bit late, I had to restart my computer to get the internet to work :mad:)




There's no reason it makes the KM a prime target.

It allows the assassins to make a kill that gives the town no information. Killings happen for a reason and if that reason is that the target is kingmaker, no further insight can be gained as there would be if a random townsperson with enemies and allies were killed.

If the KM keeps outing themselves, the assassins could kill the KM each night and cause the town's numbers to dwindle without betraying anything about who they may be.
i dont know how much we are going to get out of who they choose to kill anyway.

that could just go different ways, there are a bunch of rationales on why to kill people.

Norseman
13 Dec 07, 04:01:23 PM
It allows the assassins to make a kill that gives the town no information. Killings happen for a reason and if that reason is that the target is kingmaker, no further insight can be gained as there would be if a random townsperson with enemies and allies were killed.

If the KM keeps outing themselves, the assassins could kill the KM each night and cause the town's numbers to dwindle without betraying anything about who they may be.

If they wanted to kill without reason, they could kill one of the townies randomly, and you would get no information from that either. If they want to kill the KM, they accomplish nothing more than that because the KM is a random townie anyway.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 04:18:41 PM
Fuck this, anyone have a postcount? One of the people with the lowest post counts is dying. By my, probably alphabetical, discretion.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 04:19:36 PM
Also, Norseman gets the Newbie-Awesome award, for being basically a crazy person.

Bright Life
13 Dec 07, 04:21:06 PM
Fuck this, anyone have a postcount? One of the people with the lowest post counts is dying. By my, probably alphabetical, discretion.



Hmph. I saw someone was dying in postspy, so I clicked right over. :muttering:

Glad no one's kicking the bucket.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 04:24:05 PM
I hate postspy.

The end.

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 04:25:34 PM
Aww shucks Beren, don't be like that. Postspy loves you:).

If you're going by post count then I'm safe.:D

Hoenir
13 Dec 07, 04:28:53 PM
You might be safe Deadlokd, but I think I'm currently the one with the fewest posts right now. I don't want to die. I'm town. And this is my first game. I'm still trying to figure out how to play.

Imaginary Mark
13 Dec 07, 04:29:07 PM
Beren, earlier you said you would execute whoever got the most votes.

Now you are saying you will pick someone of your own choosing.

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 04:33:11 PM
You might be safe Deadlokd, but I think I'm currently the one with the fewest posts right now. I don't want to die. I'm town. And this is my first game. I'm still trying to figure out how to play.

Don't execute Hoenir. It sucks to be killed this early in your first game. I know, it happened to me twice.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 04:33:36 PM
Beren, earlier you said you would execute whoever got the most votes.

Now you are saying you will pick someone of your own choosing.

No one is voting. Just because you havn't posted doesn't mean you get to start throwing shit my way.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 04:34:14 PM
You might be safe Deadlokd, but I think I'm currently the one with the fewest posts right now. I don't want to die. I'm town. And this is my first game. I'm still trying to figure out how to play.

Don't execute Hoenir. It sucks to be killed this early in your first game. I know, it happened to me twice.

Yeah, me too, I won't.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 04:35:19 PM
What about d0t? d0ts posted like once in this thread? Am I right?

Hoenir
13 Dec 07, 04:40:09 PM
You might be safe Deadlokd, but I think I'm currently the one with the fewest posts right now. I don't want to die. I'm town. And this is my first game. I'm still trying to figure out how to play.

Don't execute Hoenir. It sucks to be killed this early in your first game. I know, it happened to me twice.

Thank you. unvote Deadlokd

Imaginary Mark
13 Dec 07, 04:40:43 PM
Beren, earlier you said you would execute whoever got the most votes.

Now you are saying you will pick someone of your own choosing.

No one is voting. Just because you havn't posted doesn't mean you get to start throwing shit my way.

You seem hostile. Where is that coming from?


Is it really true that no one is voting? I think most of the people in the game have made some sort of vote or fos although I haven't been keeping track. It would probably be helpful to have a vote count here. At least, it would be to a king who was going to take it into some sort of account.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 04:40:56 PM
Plus your avatar is a fucking lion. That's badass. (To Hoenir)

Beren
13 Dec 07, 04:43:56 PM
Beren, earlier you said you would execute whoever got the most votes.

Now you are saying you will pick someone of your own choosing.

No one is voting. Just because you havn't posted doesn't mean you get to start throwing shit my way.

You seem hostile. Where is that coming from?


Is it really true that no one is voting? I think most of the people in the game have made some sort of vote or fos although I haven't been keeping track. It would probably be helpful to have a vote count here. At least, it would be to a king who was going to take it into some sort of account.

My general hostility just exists.

No one is really voting in any way that matters. There's nothing even close to a majority, or even an opinion, a day and a half in. And I don't blame people. There's nothing to go on.

But it's pretty obvious to everyone else this is case. Hense a bit of my hostility to your obliviousness.

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 04:48:19 PM
Honestly Beren, the general tone here is just to execute someone, anyone. It's just a game, the fate of nations don't ride on this. Just kill someone. d0t will do, or me, or Spenser (for that fucking mole that seems to float just above the avatar) or Matt or bey. Someone, anyone.

Beren
13 Dec 07, 04:50:32 PM
Fair enough.

EXECUTE: d0t

Imaginary Mark
13 Dec 07, 04:51:32 PM
I disagree that no one is voting in any way that matters. Some people have posted reasons for their votes. Of course information is limited at this point.

The point is that you said you were going execute based on people's votes and now you say you are not and that no one's vote really matters.

I'm not seeing how this behavior is helpful to the town.

EDIT: crosspost obviously. I think the rules are that all discussion in the thread ends now.

Deadlokd
13 Dec 07, 04:54:11 PM
Yeah, but when we have like a vote apiece what's a king to do? When we're on page nine on the first day and no one has a clue? Well, a random vote was better than nothing.

Nightson
13 Dec 07, 05:38:05 PM
With imperial majesty Beren points towards d0t. d0t struggles at first, but he is no match for the guards. After his head is granted a long vacation from the rest of his body you search his clothing and find the unmistakable papers of general townieness on him.

Someone in the back suggest that you search the bodies before killing people and he is promptly put to death as well.

It is now night, send in choices.