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Tears On My Dong
17 Nov 07, 04:17:37 PM
I think this needs it's own thread.

This game was a microcosm of the real world. You have a bunch of evil people blatantly working together doing blatantly evil things and the good guys are too stupid and apathetic to do anything about it. When someone speaks out against the evil, they get silenced and everyone forgets they ever existed.

I'd like to see Spenser's summary first. Then I'd like to hear damian's master plan including the "Secret Cabal" thing everyone fell for.

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 09:35:15 PM
Congratulations town, you managed to not place all your eggs in one basket.

Original Roles

Player
1. ELV - Cleric - Black Circle - Prays for info from a target player or Prays for night time protection for target player
2. Sentinel - Mage - Red Wizard - Can scry for alignment or Character type
3. Jacey - Fighter - Cursed viewed as evil - Cursed Townie - At night turns into a Panther and must kill target player, if paid to kill some one must do it, protected from night killing once
4. Imaginary mark - Mage - Red Wizard - Can scry for recruitability or can recruit (dies if target is not recruitable) Carries Ring of Protection from Evil that protects against evil night kills, it cannot be removed
5. PiCroft - Townie
6. jamesbannon - Townie
7. damian - Fighter - Black Circle - Is immune to night killings. Has Wand that kills outed players if their role claim is true
8. trillian - Cleric - Black Circle - Prays to recruit target player once or prays to curse or reverse curse target player
9. Tom Sawyer - Fighter - Carries Sword of Warning
10. Tears In The Rain - Cleric - Prays to detect curse on target player or pray to remove curse on target player, if target is not cursed, they become cursed.
11. Beren - Originally townie, reborn as cleric that could detect curses or items
12. SkepticTank - Fighter - Assassin - Can target any player for assassination each night, also if paid 10 gold must target player of payors choice
13 dancer_rnb - Mage - Can scry for alignment or can scry for character type; is allergic to eggs
14. Th1nk3r - Townie
15. Bradshaw - Townie
16. Monkey Pants - Theif - Cursed viewed as evil - Cursed Townie - Must attempt to steal from target player each night, if no items will get half gold rounded down
17. mrickaby - Mage - Black Circle - Can scry for character type or can scry for alignment
18. Pavlov's Dog - Theif - Cursed viewed as good - Cursed Black Circle - Don't know other BC, viewed as good and must tell truth no matter what.
19. Ambivalent - Townie
20. GunnerJ - Mage - Can scry for alignment or can scry for character type
21. Sarpedon - Townie
22. Laughing Dog - Townie
23. mefisto - Cleric - Prays to protect target player, can only protect each player once and can protect self on night 1
24. d0t - Townie
25. beyelzu - Fighter - Cursed viewed as evil - Cursed Townie - You are a dark elf outcast. You get one protection for night kills from each source
26. Unorganized - Townie
27. COAS - Theif - Town Whore - sleeps with target player voiding them of any night moves and steals their money.
28. Nightson - Fighter - Informan - can fend off BC attacks


This is how it started as best as I can recreate at the moment, I forgot who I gave the 6 eggs to but all of them were normal townies. A potential Mason group had any one figured it out.

I am more than happy to answer any questions and will be posting more stuff as I think of it.

Pavlov's Dog
17 Nov 07, 09:38:30 PM
That summary sucks on the black skin.

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 09:40:34 PM
Some of the above powers were limited. As for ELV's scrying for info, most of it was going to be vague but I had planned on giving full role info on Jacey, ST or IM. Strangely enough he only used that power once.

I never expected Jacey or ST to reveal they were for hire. They could have controlled their own kills unless they were found out. They both decided to make it known first thing and oddly enough found each other. They let every one know they could be used.

As quite as COAS was, she made some unbelievable night hits stopping shit from happening.

The BC was completely fucked and mostly saved to the the server issues of the site switching. He was essentially lynched when I said that day would be extended since many couldn't get on. Huge turning point. That and if IM hadn't been lynched the Reds had a strong chance of winning.

Pavlov's Dog
17 Nov 07, 09:41:16 PM
I wonder why nobody asked me how I got the scroll of detect lies?

ELV
17 Nov 07, 09:42:27 PM
Some of the above powers were limited. As for ELV's scrying for info, most of it was going to be vague but I had planned on giving full role info on Jacey, ST or IM. Strangely enough he only used that power once.



It was easier to lie. It got Jacey killed.

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 09:43:14 PM
That summary sucks on the black skin.

PD was my favorite character which I made cause he had to tell the truth. No one really ever pressed him and I kinda wish I would have given that role to damian at this point cause I have a feeling that would have created some serious lulz. Though after I outed the fact that your character existed it did generate some.

Nightson
17 Nov 07, 09:46:34 PM
That and if IM hadn't been lynched the Reds had a strong chance of winning.

:D

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 09:47:22 PM
Oh, and any one could have had the Sword in the Stone. All they had to do was ask for it at night...

Pavlov's Dog
17 Nov 07, 09:48:28 PM
What would the sword in the stone do?

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 09:50:33 PM
It gave the wielder the ability to kill at night and that kill could not be protected against.

ELV
17 Nov 07, 09:52:36 PM
damn

I'm glad no one asked for it at night.

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 09:53:00 PM
Oh, and it seems like every fucking freebie I gave out, all of which I decided what they would be prior to posting, were jumped on by the BC. The were fucking quick on the trigger.

ELV
17 Nov 07, 09:54:12 PM
and hiring ST too :p

what was it this morning? 4 seconds after daybreak?

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 09:55:41 PM
damn

I'm glad no one asked for it at night.

Ha, the fact that the fish was a red herring was actually a red herring. Had any one placed the red fish who was flopping so still alive, into the red fountain, would have been given info on how to retrieve the red sword. :ninja:

Nightson
17 Nov 07, 09:57:06 PM
Oh man, too bad the black circle didn't get it's hands on that sword too, we would have won two days earlier.

ELV
17 Nov 07, 09:58:05 PM
hmm, lets do this game again.

btw, what does allergic to eggs mean? what would have happened to dancer if given an egg?

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 10:01:06 PM
hmm, lets do this game again.

btw, what does allergic to eggs mean? what would have happened to dancer if given an egg?

When I gave out the eggs I had assumed some one would eventually throw one at some one else. If dancer got hit he would have exploded into a million pieces. Kidding, he would have just had an allergic reaction and I would have laughed my ass off as that took over the topic of the thread and probably got him lynched.

trillian
17 Nov 07, 10:01:12 PM
Oh and something that never came out:

The "vanishing scroll" that mrickaby found in the glowing warehouse was a lie. He actually found a crystal ball and was allowed to ask it a question. So he asked it for clues about Jacey, one of which was the lust for gold clue.

But he left the crystal ball in the warehouse, so I went in after he came out and tried to make it do something for me. When it didn't I just took the ball and left the place empty. Later, ST pilfered it when I died. If anyone had gone into the warehouse that wasn't BC, they would have seen that mrickaby lied about what he found there.

ELV
17 Nov 07, 10:02:47 PM
How did you pick who would have what roles?

mrickaby
17 Nov 07, 10:04:53 PM
Yeah, I screwed up pretty bad leaving the crystal ball in wherehouse...whorehouse...warehouse, whatever it was. Thanks for covering me on that one.

Also, when I found the proof of Spenser being God, I learned the numbers of alignments and roles left in the game at that point, which would have screwed ST if I had put it out there, and also that two players had half the gold in the game.

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 10:10:46 PM
How did you pick who would have what roles?

Honestly, I was a bit tired of the town always winning. I decided trill and damian were going to be evil and team mates and told them to suggest who they wanted on their team. They picked ELV, Tom Sawyer and PD. Tom had asked for a sword in the sign up thread and I had already thought up the sword of warning so I wanted him to have it. I pick mrickaby instead.

I put Sent and IM together cause the are both experienced and I thought they would work well together. The rest was mostly random.

So I stacked the none town factions with people I thought would work well with each other but then tried to balance out powers so the town still had a fair chance. They ended up with something like 3 clerics, 2 mages, a theif and a few fighters. Also, if townies were the first to pick post on my freebies I tended to give them something better whether that would have been items or info.

I put out a lot of info in the game, much of it pretty damning to different sides and yet a lot of it went unnoticed.

Tears On My Dong
17 Nov 07, 10:12:23 PM
Who uncursed damian?

Also, I agree with Nightson about cults and recruiting and I want everyone to understand that no matter what rules the GM makes, I am not recruitable. I will out your whole fucking team and post PM's to get god-killed.

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 10:12:27 PM
Yeah, I screwed up pretty bad leaving the crystal ball in wherehouse...whorehouse...warehouse, whatever it was. Thanks for covering me on that one.

Also, when I found the proof of Spenser being God, I learned the numbers of alignments and roles left in the game at that point, which would have screwed ST if I had put it out there, and also that two players had half the gold in the game.

To clarify, I gave number of reds, number of blacks, number of clerics, mages, theives ETc but not a combo of any of them.

IOW he did not receive that there were 2 red mages, 2 town clerics Etc

trillian
17 Nov 07, 10:13:54 PM
Who uncursed damian?

Whoever uncursed you, also uncursed damian at the same time.

mrickaby
17 Nov 07, 10:18:07 PM
My night actions as far as my recollections go:

Night 1

I viewed PiCroft for alignment, found out he was townie right before he was godkilled and I was responsible for the attempted kill of Tom Sawyer, and we all remember the PM that went out.

Night 2

Viewed Sentinel for role, came back as a mage. I was again the attempted killer, this time I was blocked by a panther, which we later found out to be was Jacey himself.

Night 3

Sarpedon for role. Found out he was townie. This was a relief for me, I was enjoying his role-playing. At this point, I was no longer responsible for the night kills. Recieved PM from Tears thanking me for letting him know I was BC.

Night 4

dOt for role. Also townie. Hired ST to kill COAS, failed.

Night 5

mefisto for role. Was blocked by prostitute at this point, and lost the 20 gold I had left. Could not put in a request for ST, even though I was online, because I didn't have the cash.

Tears On My Dong
17 Nov 07, 10:18:16 PM
Who uncursed damian?

Whoever uncursed you, also uncursed damian at the same time.

That doesn't make sense. They were two different curses.

My night actions:
-uncurse beyelzu
-uncurse me
-uncurse Jacey Monkey Pants

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 10:19:02 PM
Who uncursed damian?

Whoever uncursed you, also uncursed damian at the same time.

The way it was supposed to happen was that the night move effected damian instead of Tears but I had told Tears that he had uncursed himself before I realized this so it went down as they both got uncursed.

It was hard to keep up with a lot that was going on, the night moves started off extremely complicated and I had to make a lot of decisions that I guess could have took the game on a whole different course.

BTW I had 894 PMs when I asked people to guess.

ELV
17 Nov 07, 10:19:40 PM
These were my night actions, kinda boring.

Night 1 – protect Trillian
Night 2 – protect Trillian
Night 3 – protect myself (this was a mistake, but it worked out for us)
Night 4 – protect Skeptic Tank
Night 5 – protect Skeptic Tank
Night 6 – investigate Imaginary Mark ( I wasn’t lying on day 7)
Night 7 – protect Skeptic Tank

edit: lol, tears killed himself

ELV
17 Nov 07, 10:20:52 PM
Spenser, I guessed 900 and didn't get anything. Come on! How close did I have to get?

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 10:22:28 PM
Spenser, I guessed 900 and didn't get anything. Come on! How close did I have to get?

I wanted at least a majority of players to guess and only like two did.

Tears On My Dong
17 Nov 07, 10:24:24 PM
Who uncursed damian?

Whoever uncursed you, also uncursed damian at the same time.

The way it was supposed to happen was that the night move effected damian instead of Tears but I had told Tears that he had uncursed himself before I realized this so it went down as they both got uncursed.

It was hard to keep up with a lot that was going on, the night moves started off extremely complicated and I had to make a lot of decisions that I guess could have took the game on a whole different course.

BTW I had 894 PMs when I asked people to guess.

If you had said I was still cursed, I would have realized what happened. Things would have been a lot different if I had known damian was uncursed all of day 3.

How many things did you do to tilt this against the town?
- stack the teams instead of random
- God-kill PiCroft letting the Black Circle take the halberd
- this bs with uncursing damian and me so I didn't know anything was amiss

mrickaby
17 Nov 07, 10:24:50 PM
So the two biggest breaks we had in the game were that Tears was responsible for his own death by accidentally uncursing damian, and Jacey lynched himself by unvoting and not voting again until after dusk when it would have made it a tie vote with Tears as the tie-breaker, correct?

Nightson
17 Nov 07, 10:25:46 PM
Also, dead people need to be more careful about possibly influencing the game. Saying the town is fucked can and will influence people still in the game.

Nightson
17 Nov 07, 10:27:02 PM
So the two biggest breaks we had in the game were that Tears was responsible for his own death by accidentally uncursing damian, and Jacey lynched himself by unvoting and not voting again until after dusk when it would have made it a tie vote with Tears as the tie-breaker, correct?

That was wonderful when the good guys split the vote and in doing so got Jacey lynched.

ELV
17 Nov 07, 10:28:26 PM
So the two biggest breaks we had in the game were that Tears was responsible for his own death by accidentally uncursing damian, and Jacey lynched himself by unvoting and not voting again until after dusk when it would have made it a tie vote with Tears as the tie-breaker, correct?

I guess Trillian not being able to uncurse Damian falls under Tears killing himself, but the specifics of her role PM and getting Sentinel lynched instead of Damian was big too.

Pavlov's Dog
17 Nov 07, 10:30:02 PM
I didn't even know who was all in the black circle until the last day, and at that time, I wasn't sure if I was missing anybody.

ELV
17 Nov 07, 10:30:07 PM
Whoever uncursed you, also uncursed damian at the same time.

The way it was supposed to happen was that the night move effected damian instead of Tears but I had told Tears that he had uncursed himself before I realized this so it went down as they both got uncursed.

It was hard to keep up with a lot that was going on, the night moves started off extremely complicated and I had to make a lot of decisions that I guess could have took the game on a whole different course.

BTW I had 894 PMs when I asked people to guess.

If you had said I was still cursed, I would have realized what happened. Things would have been a lot different if I had known damian was uncursed all of day 3.

How many things did you do to tilt this against the town?
- stack the teams instead of random
- God-kill PiCroft letting the Black Circle take the halberd
- this bs with uncursing damian and me so I didn't know anything was amiss

There was plenty of frustration because of Spenser's actions to go around Tears. :D

Sorry for bitching at you so much Spenser, it was a great game.


I didn't even know who was all in the black circle until the last day, and at that time, I wasn't sure if I was missing anybody.

I wanted to ask you about that. Did you suspect us? When did you start suspecting us? What were those days 3 & 4 like for you? I can't imagine being left in the dark and trying to figure out the best course of action to take without knowing who we all were.

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 10:30:39 PM
Whoever uncursed you, also uncursed damian at the same time.

The way it was supposed to happen was that the night move effected damian instead of Tears but I had told Tears that he had uncursed himself before I realized this so it went down as they both got uncursed.

It was hard to keep up with a lot that was going on, the night moves started off extremely complicated and I had to make a lot of decisions that I guess could have took the game on a whole different course.

BTW I had 894 PMs when I asked people to guess.

If you had said I was still cursed, I would have realized what happened.

How many things did you do to tilt this against the town?
- stack the teams instead of random
- God-kill PiCroft letting the Black Circle take the halberd
- this bs with uncursing damian and me so I didn't know anything was amiss

I God killed Picroft cause he had to leave the game and no one had stepped up to take his place. It wasn't till after that beren came back and offered.

I fucked up the curse thing, what was I supposed to tell you? Oops, you didn't actually uncurse yourself you uncursed damian? Either way they would have killed you that night.

I stacked the teams and early on it didn't look like that made a difference. You and Jacey seemed to have the BC pegged. Sent and IM had them pegged and server issues gave damain an extra day to lie out of his ass.

I gave a lot of freebies in the game hoping the town would get them. The BC was all over those. There were a lot of factors that could have changed the game one way or another. I know the BC cringed a few times when they heard some of the info I released about them yet some how a lot of that was glossed over in the game thread.

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 10:34:47 PM
There was plenty of frustration because of Spenser's actions to go around Tears. :D

Sorry for bitching at you so much Spenser, it was a great game.

I definitely got more heat from you than from any one else.

ELV
17 Nov 07, 10:35:51 PM
Oh, I'm not at all surprised. I hope you didn't take it personally :). I bet me bitching at you was what almost got me lynched on day 3. I bet those were the PMs th1nk3r was watching, because I wasn't doing much else.

Tears On My Dong
17 Nov 07, 10:36:10 PM
If you had:
a) told me you fucked up and I was still cursed
or
b) given me some indication that the curse doubled (to correct your mistake)

I would have outed day 3 instead of day 4 like I planned and been able to coordinate the information I had much better. That would have prevented a lot of the confusion and the fiasco at the end of day 3.

Anyway, I know you had to make a lot of decisions but those things make a big difference. From now on I am not signing up unless I know there is no recruiting and the roles are random.

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 10:37:47 PM
I couldn't fucking believe that damian, ELV and mrickably were still alive late in the game. ELV especially, an outed good cleric who some how lives till the end game???

ELV
17 Nov 07, 10:38:21 PM
I kept protecting myself Spenser, c'mon.

mrickaby
17 Nov 07, 10:39:14 PM
I couldn't fucking believe that damian, ELV and mrickably were still alive late in the game. ELV especially, an outed good cleric who some how lives till the end game???

In our discussions there were at least 2-3 days where we said "oh well, damian is gone today" but he kept getting saved by something.

Tears On My Dong
17 Nov 07, 10:40:50 PM
That's what all the dead people were laughing about.

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 10:41:00 PM
Shit happens when you party naked!

ELV
17 Nov 07, 10:41:19 PM
I had to keep reminding people to not give up hope, because it was like the 4thtime one of us narrowly avoided getting lynched. :D

We (well, the other guys, I was going to be dead) were honestly planning on holding a BBQ day #4 morning and then drowning themselves in the fountain if night 3 went poorly. That was a real turning point, getting Jacey and Tears killed and recruiting Skeptic Tank.

mrickaby
17 Nov 07, 10:41:58 PM
Oh I know, we knew that you and the others that were all killed around the same time as you knew almost everything that was going on. Why do you think you were such a big target?

ETA: responding to Tears

the WORST elf
17 Nov 07, 10:42:01 PM
In our discussions there were at least 2-3 days where we said "oh well, damian is gone today" but he kept getting saved by something.

saved by good play and teamwork, of course.

the WORST elf
17 Nov 07, 10:45:47 PM
so now people are whining that spenser rigged it for town to lose?

Holy crap, every possible excuse other than "we fucked up."

Tears On My Dong
17 Nov 07, 10:46:34 PM
Oh I know, we knew that you and the others that were all killed around the same time as you knew almost everything that was going on. Why do you think you were such a big target?

ETA: responding to Tears

Yeah, I never expect to live long in these games. I was deciding whether I needed to out on day 3 or 4. I would have tried to lynch damian day 3 if I thought I had enough clout.

ELV
17 Nov 07, 10:47:29 PM
You should let them in on "your master plan" damian ;)

Pavlov's Dog
17 Nov 07, 11:06:41 PM
I wanted to ask you about that. Did you suspect us? When did you start suspecting us? What were those days 3 & 4 like for you? I can't imagine being left in the dark and trying to figure out the best course of action to take without knowing who we all were.

I had guesses all along, but not all of them were correct. Damian was guiding me, so it was not that difficult to not make any major mistakes.

beyelzu
17 Nov 07, 11:16:32 PM
yeah i fucked up when i helped save damian by going after sentinel..


in my defense though sentinel totally seemed evil to me and it did turn out he was antitown.

once i was recruited to red circle it just didnt matter. the black circle went after me right away in thread. i suspected them but what could i do??

hell the way the game was set up, while red had a chance to win, did the town ever?

really?

ELV
17 Nov 07, 11:18:10 PM
I wanted to ask you about that. Did you suspect us? When did you start suspecting us? What were those days 3 & 4 like for you? I can't imagine being left in the dark and trying to figure out the best course of action to take without knowing who we all were.

I had guesses all along, but not all of them were correct. Damian was guiding me, so it was not that difficult to not make any major mistakes.

Who did you guess wrongly about?

Pavlov's Dog
17 Nov 07, 11:19:14 PM
I wanted to ask you about that. Did you suspect us? When did you start suspecting us? What were those days 3 & 4 like for you? I can't imagine being left in the dark and trying to figure out the best course of action to take without knowing who we all were.

I had guesses all along, but not all of them were correct. Damian was guiding me, so it was not that difficult to not make any major mistakes.

Who did you guess wrongly about?

I remember I thought Nightson was townie for a while. I thought Tom Sawyer was one of us.

ELV
17 Nov 07, 11:19:39 PM
yeah i fucked up when i helped save damian by going after sentinel..


in my defense though sentinel totally seemed evil to me and it did turn out he was antitown.

once i was recruited to red circle it just didnt matter. the black circle went after me right away in thread. i suspected them but what could i do??

hell the way the game was set up, while red had a chance to win, did the town ever?

really?

Not after we got Tears and Jacey killed in one night really, at least not without the cooperation of at least one faction. At least I don't think, I wouldn't know unless I learned more about what you commies were doing.

Spenser
17 Nov 07, 11:28:13 PM
yeah i fucked up when i helped save damian by going after sentinel..


in my defense though sentinel totally seemed evil to me and it did turn out he was antitown.

once i was recruited to red circle it just didnt matter. the black circle went after me right away in thread. i suspected them but what could i do??

hell the way the game was set up, while red had a chance to win, did the town ever?

really?

I thought so. There were so many games where the mob go members offed early and some of the first suspect list had nearly all anti-town on them. I was trying to feed the town more info as well but BC kept swooping in on all the freebies...


The town had 3 clerics, 2 mages, a theif and like 3 fighters...

the WORST elf
17 Nov 07, 11:46:17 PM
You should let them in on "your master plan" damian ;)

which one is that? We had like 17 plans going at any given time.

dancer_rnb
17 Nov 07, 11:48:58 PM
Just thought I would report my moves.
night 1. Asked to view nightson. Visited by COAS instead.
night 2 Viewed Gunnerj as good. Gunnerj killed the same night.
night 3. Server problems.
night 4. Viewed Mrickaby-evil. Panicked at this time. Day 5 and no known living good.
night 5 Viewed Unorganized-good
night 6 tried to view Monkeypants. Died

Nightson
18 Nov 07, 01:15:18 AM
Oh, that last minute thing where people killed JAcey during like the last fifteen minutes of the day.

Totally not planned at all. In fact I think it started with ELV going "I'm going to try something..."

jamesbannon
18 Nov 07, 01:52:30 AM
I couldn't fucking believe that damian, ELV and mrickably were still alive late in the game. ELV especially, an outed good cleric who some how lives till the end game???
Yep. That was so obvious I got really mad. It was also bloody obvious that Damian was black circle, especially after Tears got hit. These were the only 2 I was certain about. Incidentally why did the black circle hit me on Day 4 when there were other more important players in the game? Everyone must have known I was just plain town at that point.

Nightson
18 Nov 07, 02:11:34 AM
I couldn't fucking believe that damian, ELV and mrickably were still alive late in the game. ELV especially, an outed good cleric who some how lives till the end game???
Yep. That was so obvious I got really mad. It was also bloody obvious that Damian was black circle, especially after Tears got hit. These were the only 2 I was certain about. Incidentally why did the black circle hit me on Day 4 when there were other more important players in the game? Everyone must have known I was just plain town at that point.

Most people were convinced you were good. It's possible that you could have formed the good players back up into a coalition. Plus I also think that we found out you were going to be recruited at some point.

jamesbannon
18 Nov 07, 02:19:18 AM
Ah that explains it, thanks. I wasn't even sure there were any reds in the game (I thought them separate from the neutrals).

ETA: One thing I did want to ask is can the town kill at night? I wasn't sure of that when the game started. It seems that the only way the town could get a kill was if they hired someone (either Jacey or Skeptic Tank). Is this normal for the other Mafia games?

Nightson
18 Nov 07, 02:27:08 AM
There are occasional town killing roles, but generally no, town has to use the lynch i norder to win.

jamesbannon
18 Nov 07, 02:30:28 AM
Thanks.

Monkey Pants
18 Nov 07, 02:41:35 AM
Congratulations town, you managed to not place all your eggs in one basket.

Original Roles

Player
1. ELV - Cleric - Black Circle - Prays for info from a target player or Prays for night time protection for target player
2. Sentinel - Mage - Red Wizard - Can scry for alignment or Character type
3. Jacey - Fighter - Cursed viewed as evil - Cursed Townie - At night turns into a Panther and must kill target player, if paid to kill some one must do it, protected from night killing once
4. Imaginary mark - Mage - Red Wizard - Can scry for recruitability or can recruit (dies if target is not recruitable) Carries Ring of Protection from Evil that protects against evil night kills, it cannot be removed
5. PiCroft - Townie
6. jamesbannon - Townie
7. damian - Fighter - Black Circle - Is immune to night killings. Has Wand that kills outed players if their role claim is true
8. trillian - Cleric - Black Circle - Prays to recruit target player once or prays to curse or reverse curse target player
9. Tom Sawyer - Fighter - Carries Sword of Warning
10. Tears In The Rain - Cleric - Prays to detect curse on target player or pray to remove curse on target player, if target is not cursed, they become cursed.
11. Beren - Originally townie, reborn as cleric that could detect curses or items
12. SkepticTank - Fighter - Assassin - Can target any player for assassination each night, also if paid 10 gold must target player of payors choice
13 dancer_rnb - Mage - Can scry for alignment or can scry for character type; is allergic to eggs
14. Th1nk3r - Townie
15. Bradshaw - Townie
16. Monkey Pants - Theif - Cursed viewed as evil - Cursed Townie - Must attempt to steal from target player each night, if no items will get half gold rounded down
17. mrickaby - Mage - Black Circle - Can scry for character type or can scry for alignment
18. Pavlov's Dog - Theif - Cursed viewed as good - Cursed Black Circle - Don't know other BC, viewed as good and must tell truth no matter what.
19. Ambivalent - Townie
20. GunnerJ - Mage - Can scry for alignment or can scry for character type
21. Sarpedon - Townie
22. Laughing Dog - Townie
23. mefisto - Cleric - Prays to protect target player, can only protect each player once and can protect self on night 1
24. d0t - Townie
25. beyelzu - Fighter - Cursed viewed as evil - Cursed Townie - You are a dark elf outcast. You get one protection for night kills from each source
26. Unorganized - Townie
27. COAS - Theif - Town Whore - sleeps with target player voiding them of any night moves and steals their money.
28. Nightson - Fighter - Informan - can fend off BC attacks


This is how it started as best as I can recreate at the moment, I forgot who I gave the 6 eggs to but all of them were normal townies. A potential Mason group had any one figured it out.

I am more than happy to answer any questions and will be posting more stuff as I think of it.

At the start of the game, I kept a low profile - partly because I detected as evil, so I figured I had little chance of joining any Good cabals, and partly because my timezone and connection problems made it hard for me to be effective (one day, it took me 40 minutes and two computer restarts just to make one post and send one PM). So all I did was try to steal from people that looked suspicious.

After Tears died, two things happened - I got uncursed and I my Internet connection improved. I nominated myself for Mayor and quickly started playing in earnest.

Unfortunately I hadn't been in the loop with Tears, James et al so I had none of the information they had found except what had been said publicly. However, I quickly pegged most people for what they were. The only ones I got wrong were SkepticTank (I thought he was Red, but didn't realise he'd been recruited to Black), and Pavlov's Dog - who I thought was town because he wasn't acting in concert with the other Blacks and was definitely anti-Red.

I thought I was doing quite well at outing the Blacks and poking holes in their excuses (although whether anyone believed me was another matter). Unfortunately, I was then recruited into the Reds - after two of the other three (COAS never made contact) had pretty much outed themselves and the third had already been recruited into Black. We never stood a chance after that (if we ever had).

Monkey Pants
18 Nov 07, 02:44:00 AM
Ah that explains it, thanks. I wasn't even sure there were any reds in the game (I thought them separate from the neutrals).

ETA: One thing I did want to ask is can the town kill at night? I wasn't sure of that when the game started. It seems that the only way the town could get a kill was if they hired someone (either Jacey or Skeptic Tank). Is this normal for the other Mafia games?

Sometimes there is a "Lunatic" character, who is town but must kill each night. Sort of like Jacey or Skeptic Tank, but they can always choose who they kill.

Those characters can be very useful for the town if they can get in touch with and co-ordinate with the other town specials. If they are left out of the loop, they can be a liability, though, unless they are good at picking up clues for themselves - since they are effectively shooting in the dark.

Monkey Pants
18 Nov 07, 02:49:51 AM
so now people are whining that spenser rigged it for town to lose?

Holy crap, every possible excuse other than "we fucked up."

Actually, I was under the impression that Spenser was trying to act as a balancing influence to stop any given side winning too quickly and so make the game last longer...

Although being perfectly honest, looking at the role list I don't have the confidence that Spenser did about the town's chances. I think having over a third of the town starting as scum plus having both sets of scum able to also recruit was not going to be balanced by the extra good roles.

And I'm not just saying that because both teams I was on lost!

th1nk3r
18 Nov 07, 05:41:22 AM
Next game starts tomorrow... http://www.rantsnraves.org/showthread.php?p=106782

I automatically signed up all the posters and voters of that thread, so if your schedule isn't free make sure you take yourselves off the list.

Thanx

SkepticTank
18 Nov 07, 07:11:50 AM
To clarify, I gave number of reds, number of blacks, number of clerics, mages, theives ETc but not a combo of any of them.

IOW he did not receive that there were 2 red mages, 2 town clerics Etc

Yeah, but we knew the blacks and their roles, and since I was a former Red (and still undercover), we knew the reds and their roles.

What were the red kings on the checkerboard? I assume those were me and COAS cuz we were collecting gold?

How did Sent and IM get in touch with each other?

Rivers Cuomo Fan #754
18 Nov 07, 08:28:52 AM
whats the big deal about recruiting that makes people so mad

the WORST elf
18 Nov 07, 08:38:26 AM
so now people are whining that spenser rigged it for town to lose?

Holy crap, every possible excuse other than "we fucked up."

Actually, I was under the impression that Spenser was trying to act as a balancing influence to stop any given side winning too quickly and so make the game last longer...

Although being perfectly honest, looking at the role list I don't have the confidence that Spenser did about the town's chances. I think having over a third of the town starting as scum plus having both sets of scum able to also recruit was not going to be balanced by the extra good roles.

And I'm not just saying that because both teams I was on lost!

Spenser actually did a lot to counter us. For example, I never should have had to send you that "hint" about Trillian's role. I think it should've been more obvious than that.

When we killed you, we had word the the red's were recruiting you. So, our plan was to kill you so you showed up red, because you were extremely trusted and fairly aggressively attacking me. We figured a "wow, James was red!" would stir things up. Instead, the info given was "james just got converted to red before he died." Which basically screwed up the entire reason we wasted a kill on you.

And Tears was, essentially, made unkillable and unrecruitable (since he was a cleric). It was only a fluke that allowed us to kill kim, otherwise he was an unkillable good townie cleric with two votes, and all of the information about roles after death. I'm pretty sure spenser knew he would be mayor and have this position of power. We recognized that early and tried to recruit him, but it obviously failed.

There were other things, like trying his hardest to let the town know about the "George Washington."

All in all, i don't think it's such a big deal since it's been pretty stacked against the scum side in almost every other game.

the WORST elf
18 Nov 07, 08:39:25 AM
whats the big deal about recruiting that makes people so mad

Beats me.

Jacey
18 Nov 07, 08:45:07 AM
damian,

It didnt matter about a hint on trillians role. I'd already deduced she was evil and had the hint in to spenser and Skeptic Tank. Tears only confirmed to me what I already suspected.

Also someone said something about sentinel, I never talked to him till after the game to tell him how gay he is.

jamesbannon
18 Nov 07, 08:48:07 AM
I wasn't mad at the set-up as usually the bad guys have the advantage anyway (or so it seems to me in most of the games I've seen). I took a risk contacting Tears initially as I wasn't sure if either he or PiCroft was town but it was the only way I could see that the town could gain some of the advantage back from the bad guys. What annoyed me was the behaviour of the town in the game thread when it was obvious who at least 2 of the bad guys were. Why people fell for ELV's stunt was quite beyond me.

Jacey
18 Nov 07, 08:50:15 AM
I still don't get how Tears and I left the whole BC list out there and I think the only one who died was me having trillian murdered

the WORST elf
18 Nov 07, 08:53:34 AM
damian,

It didnt matter about a hint on trillians role. I'd already deduced she was evil and had the hint in to spenser and Skeptic Tank. Tears only confirmed to me what I already suspected.

Also someone said something about sentinel, I never talked to him till after the game to tell him how gay he is.

That's not the hint i'm talking about. I had to suggest to Monkey Pants that trillian could only uncurse good people, because that was in her role description. That's what made me look extra guilty.

I wasn't aware of any other hint on Trillian's role. I just heard you targeted her because she wouldn't discuss her role with you.

the WORST elf
18 Nov 07, 08:54:53 AM
I still don't get how Tears and I left the whole BC list out there and I think the only one who died was me having trillian murdered

Because as much as you guys act like you know everything, you didn't "know" anything. They were your guesses. And, believe it or not, you guys are not infallible.

Jacey
18 Nov 07, 08:56:55 AM
Because as much as you guys act like you know everything, you didn't "know" anything. They were your guesses. And, believe it or not, you guys are not infallible.

No I pretty much know everything ask trillian

<3 trillian <3

Monkey Pants
18 Nov 07, 09:19:09 AM
whats the big deal about recruiting that makes people so mad

Beats me.

I certainly don't object to recruiters on principle, but they are more powerful that killers.

When a killer acts, the other team just loses a person. When a recruiter acts, not only does the other team lose someone - but the recruiter's team also gains someone (someone probably already trusted by the opposition, and possible someone with a useful special ability) and the recruiters team also gains all the information that the recruitee had.

As I say - this isn't a problem per se, but its relative power compared to a kill needs to be taken into account when trying to balance the number and type of specials at the start of the game.

Rivers Cuomo Fan #754
18 Nov 07, 09:26:45 AM
yeah but i didn't mean in theory i meant in specific, like tears said he'd nuke the game or something if recruited

recruiting is fucking personal

Spenser
18 Nov 07, 09:36:42 AM
The Black Circle and any Clerics were not recruitable by the Red Wizards and would have caused IM to die if he tried. He got desperate in the end and nabbed bey and you and if COAS would have showed up and voted damian, it is likely the Reds would be celebrating victory.

The town had a plenty fair chance in the beginning but almost all early kills were your good townies. Also, had the town gotten a hold of the sword in the stone, it would have been a tremendous balancing factor and if you remember MP, I told you that as mayor when you were still good.

dancer_rnb
18 Nov 07, 09:39:24 AM
One reason I trusted ELV was that trillian had been killed,
and reported to be evil. I din't think it likely the black circle
had TWO clerics. And since mephisto could only protect once,
I figured him to be neutral. I was planning on reading mephisto
to make sure originally.

the WORST elf
18 Nov 07, 09:42:49 AM
The Black Circle and any Clerics were not recruitable by the Red Wizards and would have caused IM to die if he tried. He got desperate in the end and nabbed bey and you and if COAS would have showed up and voted damian, it is likely the Reds would be celebrating victory.

The town had a plenty fair chance in the beginning but almost all early kills were your good townies. Also, had the town gotten a hold of the sword in the stone, it would have been a tremendous balancing factor and if you remember MP, I told you that as mayor when you were still good.

ST would have switched his vote to IM if that had happened. We were prepared :)

SkepticTank
18 Nov 07, 09:43:20 AM
So the two biggest breaks we had in the game were that Tears was responsible for his own death by accidentally uncursing damian, and Jacey lynched himself by unvoting and not voting again until after dusk when it would have made it a tie vote with Tears as the tie-breaker, correct?

That was wonderful when the good guys split the vote and in doing so got Jacey lynched.


Oh, and I was allied with Tears/Jacey at that time as I hadn't found any other Reds yet, so I was trying to vote with them, but I was on my phone, so refreshing was very slow. I switched from ELV to Damian at the same time they were switching from Damian to ELV (and/or vice versa).

Spenser
18 Nov 07, 09:43:40 AM
Had the town discussed who started with eggs, they may have come to realize only goodie townies did. That was a potential 6 people cleared.

Spenser
18 Nov 07, 09:52:26 AM
There were a couple of times I considered making all magic items blow up or every one reverse curses or something.

SkepticTank
18 Nov 07, 09:52:55 AM
once i was recruited to red circle it just didnt matter. the black circle went after me right away in thread. i suspected them but what could i do??

That's cuz I was black and you guys thought I was still red at the same time, so I had way too much info. I thought I screwed up when I gave the count to the red team before Monkey Pants had declared dancer (I think) as town.

I thought IM was going to be on to me at that point, and have me viewed again.

Spenser
18 Nov 07, 09:54:49 AM
Sent and IM started the game as the two Red Wizards and they knew each other. The two kings on the chess board represented them.

jamesbannon
18 Nov 07, 09:59:58 AM
I figured that what the kings were either than or clerics.

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 10:38:01 AM
I still don't get how Tears and I left the whole BC list out there and I think the only one who died was me having trillian murdered

Because as much as you guys act like you know everything, you didn't "know" anything. They were your guesses. And, believe it or not, you guys are not infallible.

They were guesses up to that point, but your actions confirmed them afterwards. It was pretty obvious to everyone that there were two factions going at it. Not only was the last minute lynch suspicious just for being a last-minute lynch, but I was immediately killed and verified good and then jamesbannon supported the same idea and was also immediately killed. Also, ELV was never targetted by the Black Circle after claiming Good Cleric.

Pretty good guesses since we knew basically nothing and never claimed to. If more people followed my hunches in these games when they don't know what is going on, they would do pretty fucking well.

As for you damian, you might think you're tricky, but Sentinel, Jacey, th1nk3r, ST and I all independently had you as a Black Circle leader in the first 2-3 days just based on your play, and I don't mean "maybe he is shady" but "don't even waste a scan, he is as scummy as they come".

Spenser
18 Nov 07, 10:46:42 AM
There was no Black Circle Leader as a given role.

Ambivalent
18 Nov 07, 10:59:35 AM
Who were the three Forgotten Realms characters?

I'd like to give props to Nightson. He was the only player I would have bet was good.

Ambivalent
18 Nov 07, 11:10:26 AM
whats the big deal about recruiting that makes people so mad

Beats me.

It's too unbalancing, IMHO. The personal part for me is that I put effort into trying to find out who is town or not, and all my assumptions can be rendered useless in one swoop.

Spenser
18 Nov 07, 11:16:51 AM
Kelemvor Lyonsbane - Cursed mercenary who will take any job for money, becomes a panther and goes out to feed

Drizzt D'Urden - Dark Elf outcast who is actually a good ranger and has left the underdark to go to the surface

Malek - Cursed by the goddess of magic he is a worshiper of Cyric and cannot under any circumstance lie.

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 11:19:25 AM
If you don't like it, don't neg rep me for comments i make for the purpose of winning a game, and then refer to me as an asshole for the same thing. All i did was play the game, and you can't expect me to take it likely when you react that way.

Just keep the lies to the actual game thread then.

No.

You guys made a lot of mistakes and you're trying to act like it was everyone else's. Knowledge doesn't mean jack shit if you don't put it to use the right way.

We had people voting with us that you were sure were evil, like Tom Sawyer and dancer, not because they were stupid, but because you guys were playing like the assholes you're accusing me of being. "Nope, vote for who we do, or else you're dumb fucks!"

Finally, we had a whole list of people that were the "trusted goods," taken directly from the "to" field of a PM, given to us by Nightson, one of those "trusted goods." Mysteriously, pretty much everyone on that list was following Jacey's and your lead to a tee.

Sorry, but with "Vote ELV, trust me, or die, see ya later" with no explanation, it's not the "dumb town's" fault that it doesn't go as intended. On that critical day, no one EVER gave a reason to vote for ELV. That's terrible, terrible playing, and why it was so easy to get people to swing the other way. All of the intelligence in the world doesn't count for shit if you have no people skills.

I'll go through point by point.

- Yes, please stop lying now. The game is over.

- We made a lot of mistakes. I'm not trying to act like I didn't. I'm new at this so please give me tips on what the right way was. I didn't know who I could trust or how much. I thought I had a pretty good plan but it got derailed by some unexpected events I couldn't prevent.

- I wasn't sure Tom Sawyer was evil. I said he probably wasn't. Reading comprehension ftw. I knew Jacey's lynch was mostly but not all Black Circle. I never told anyone else to vote with me. I said I was open to other suggestions but had a hunch about ELV. Reading comprehension ftw. Stop with your lying/strawman/false accusations bullshit. The people sent that PM were people I thought were not Black Circle, plus Nightson (suspected Black Circle) because he had given me that info. IM was on that and I had no info on him at all. That PM could have just as easily been to everyone. All it had was Jacey's background which I would have posted immediately on his death except he asked me not to. Nightson was not a "trusted good", lmao. I had suspected him since day 1 and was going to hire ST to kill him. Jacey hired ST to get trillian day 3. I told Sentinel to have him kill Pavlov if he scanned as evil and I was going to hit Nightson otherwise, as I had already agreed to do so.

- I never said anything like that. I'll post some actual quotes for you since your paraphrases are fucking retardedly wrong. I gave all my reasoning for voting for ELV twice. What are you smoking? I'm not going to make up bullshit pseudo-logic like you and beyelzu do. I play honest.

Maybe it was dumb luck that I pegged you as evil. I was using the useful thumbrule that when a smart, good player is lying and using bad logic, they must be evil. The game is over and you are still spewing the same lies. Are you evil in real life?

SkepticTank
18 Nov 07, 11:52:10 AM
Most people were convinced you were good. It's possible that you could have formed the good players back up into a coalition. Plus I also think that we found out you were going to be recruited at some point.

I think that was it. I was black & red. So I knew the red team was recruiting you, so the BC team decided to kill you.

My moves:
Night 1: View Tears for night moves (I had a Night Ambulate that I could use if I didn't kill). Also I hired Jacey to kill Beren. Jacey was my prime contact at this point, and we knew each other's roles. Jacey though Beren was suspicious so we agreed that I would hire him.

Night 2: Thinker hired me to kill GunnerJ. By this time I tears and Jacey and I were in close contact, but I didn't know who else they were talking to

Night 3: Hired by Jacey to kill Trillian. Tears also wanted the same kill, but then changed his mind late, told me via PM that he didn't think Trill was evil. Also this is the night I got recruited to black, but didn't know it at daybreak, so there was some confusion.

Night 4: Hired by black circle to kill IM. I fucked up and forgot that he had a ring that protected him from BC kills.

Night 5: Hired by BC to kill COAS. That failed too.

Night 6: Hired by IM, originally to kill Damian (who was unkillable), but he switched it to Dancer_rnb at the end of the day.

Spenser
18 Nov 07, 12:08:25 PM
Night 5: Hired by BC to kill COAS. That failed too..

mefisto had a successful protection.

dancer_rnb
18 Nov 07, 12:12:09 PM
Night 2: Thinker hired me to kill GunnerJ. By this time I tears and Jacey and I were in close contact, but I didn't know who else they were talking to


Glad we lynched thinker.:mad:

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 12:19:24 PM
When th1nk3r gave me the 20 gold, it was with an agreement to hire ST to kill Nightson. Intitially, th1nk3r asked me to get damian, but damian had the halberd, so I said, "I'm pretty sure damian is evil, but I have a concrete reason to have him alive for now." Th1nk3r then offered the same deal for Nightson and I said that was fine since Nightson was on my list of suspects already.

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 12:21:26 PM
Night 2: Thinker hired me to kill GunnerJ. By this time I tears and Jacey and I were in close contact, but I didn't know who else they were talking to


Glad we lynched thinker.:mad:

He wouldn't have done it if he hadn't gotten lynched. I guess he took it personally. I already thought Gunner was a Mage at that point, but it was too late.

the WORST elf
18 Nov 07, 12:36:57 PM
As for you damian, you might think you're tricky, but Sentinel, Jacey, th1nk3r, ST and I all independently had you as a Black Circle leader in the first 2-3 days just based on your play, and I don't mean "maybe he is shady" but "don't even waste a scan, he is as scummy as they come".

Only tricky enough to win.

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 12:45:09 PM
As for you damian, you might think you're tricky, but Sentinel, Jacey, th1nk3r, ST and I all independently had you as a Black Circle leader in the first 2-3 days just based on your play, and I don't mean "maybe he is shady" but "don't even waste a scan, he is as scummy as they come".

Only tricky enough to win.

Better to be lucky than good I guess. Also, I thought I had a tell on you. I thought when you lie and use bad logic it means you are evil, but apparently it's just how you roll.

the WORST elf
18 Nov 07, 12:47:34 PM
As for you damian, you might think you're tricky, but Sentinel, Jacey, th1nk3r, ST and I all independently had you as a Black Circle leader in the first 2-3 days just based on your play, and I don't mean "maybe he is shady" but "don't even waste a scan, he is as scummy as they come".

Only tricky enough to win.

Better to be lucky than good I guess. Also, I thought I had a tell on you. I thought when you lie and use bad logic it means you are evil, but apparently it's just how you roll.

I seem to be lucky a lot.

Sentinel
18 Nov 07, 12:57:24 PM
Better to be lucky than tall or handsome or witty or well hung...

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 12:58:40 PM
Only tricky enough to win.

Better to be lucky than good I guess. Also, I thought I had a tell on you. I thought when you lie and use bad logic it means you are evil, but apparently it's just how you roll.

I seem to be lucky a lot.

Go to Vegas. If one or two of these things had been different you probably would have lost:
- the teams were unbalanced
- the unsynched vote flipflops the end of day 3
- many of the town were not playing at all
- people had trouble due to the server switch
- Spenser arbitrarily uncursed you. Even if the halberd is supposed to redirect other actions, I should have been cursed still and would have known.
- I couldn't get out my PM's before day 4
- Spenser God-killed PiCroft and you got the halberd
- Spenser extended the day you should have been lynched
- many of the town were not paying attention
- your guys got most of the goodies Spenser dropped

Your whole team was fos'ed by day 3. Think about it. I don't really care about win/lose but you brought it up.

the WORST elf
18 Nov 07, 01:02:40 PM
Better to be lucky than tall or handsome or witty or well hung...

2 out of 4 ain't bad.

Spenser
18 Nov 07, 01:06:04 PM
Better to be lucky than good I guess. Also, I thought I had a tell on you. I thought when you lie and use bad logic it means you are evil, but apparently it's just how you roll.

I seem to be lucky a lot.

Go to Vegas. If one or two of these things had been different you probably would have lost:
- the teams were unbalanced
- the unsynched vote flipflops the end of day 3
- many of the town were not playing at all
- people had trouble due to the server switch
- Spenser arbitrarily uncursed you. Even if the halberd is supposed to redirect other actions, I should have been cursed still and would have known.
- I couldn't get out my PM's before day 4
- Spenser God-killed PiCroft and you got the halberd
- Spenser extended the day you should have been lynched
- many of the town were not paying attention
- your guys got most of the goodies Spenser dropped

Your whole team was fos'ed by day 3. Think about it. I don't really care about win/lose but you brought it up.

Considering the length of this list, it just more shows the game was still a toss up. I thought the Reds might have it before IM did in fact get lycnhed and posted that in the game thread "This game is far from decided"

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 01:06:43 PM
Better to be lucky than tall or handsome or witty or well hung...

2 out of 4 ain't bad.

I have one and a half...

dancer_rnb
18 Nov 07, 01:07:00 PM
Better to be lucky than good I guess. Also, I thought I had a tell on you. I thought when you lie and use bad logic it means you are evil, but apparently it's just how you roll.

I seem to be lucky a lot.

Go to Vegas. If one or two of these things had been different you probably would have lost:
- the teams were unbalanced
- the unsynched vote flipflops the end of day 3
- many of the town were not playing at all
- people had trouble due to the server switch
- Spenser arbitrarily uncursed you. Even if the halberd is supposed to redirect other actions, I should have been cursed still and would have known.
- I couldn't get out my PM's before day 4
- Spenser God-killed PiCroft and you got the halberd
- Spenser extended the day you should have been lynched
- many of the town were not paying attention
- your guys got most of the goodies Spenser dropped

Your whole team was fos'ed by day 3. Think about it. I don't really care about win/lose but you brought it up.

I also wasn't able to get my night move in before day 4, so I missed
a view. it would have been either Damian or nightson.

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 01:09:56 PM
I don't mind losing and I don't mind the circumstances. Obviously I'm unbalancing if even after everything that could go wrong did and I still almost clinched it by myself. I don't mind playing with a handicap. I just don't like all the lies and stupid accusations.

ETA: I'm not even going to pretend I don't have a huge ego.

the WORST elf
18 Nov 07, 01:16:36 PM
Obviously I'm unbalancing if even after everything that could go wrong did and I still almost clinched it by myself.

Say what?

You died as soon as you outlived our usefulness, just like everyone else did. If you'd have been recruitable, we would've had the mayor on our side and it would have ended all the quicker. Plenty of things were going wrong for us as well, like your failed recruit, but we adapted.

You should see our gmail inboxes. There are literally several hundreds of emails of our discussions and plans.

Take away all the credit from us that you want, the fact of the matter is we did what was needed, including winning almost all of Spenser's little games and controlling the information.

SkepticTank
18 Nov 07, 01:22:49 PM
I still don't get how Tears and I left the whole BC list out there and I think the only one who died was me having trillian murdered

Well, stuff like Thinker being stupid and a Lizard Man suddenly appearing sure helped distract the town.

SkepticTank
18 Nov 07, 01:25:41 PM
The Black Circle and any Clerics were not recruitable by the Red Wizards and would have caused IM to die if he tried. He got desperate in the end and nabbed bey and you and if COAS would have showed up and voted damian, it is likely the Reds would be celebrating victory.

Well, if COAS had shown up I would have switched my vote. I was on Damian, just to keep up appearances with the red team, but the black team pretty much had the numbers after that night, anyway, so it was more important for IM to die than for me to remain undercover.

And, for the record, I really was trying to get COAS to join rest of the reds (so I could get info from her), I didn't lie to the red team when I said that I PM'd her.

the WORST elf
18 Nov 07, 01:26:00 PM
I still don't get how Tears and I left the whole BC list out there and I think the only one who died was me having trillian murdered

Well, stuff like Thinker being stupid and a Lizard Man suddenly appearing sure helped distract the town.

Plus the list wasn't a "BC" list, it was a list of the people that voted for Jacey, so were assumed to all be guilty. That list also included the good mage and Tom Sawyer, and didn't have you or Nightson on it. Even lynching all of that list one day after another, there were no guarantees.

dancer_rnb
18 Nov 07, 01:38:04 PM
I still don't get how Tears and I left the whole BC list out there and I think the only one who died was me having trillian murdered

Well, stuff like Thinker being stupid and a Lizard Man suddenly appearing sure helped distract the town.

Plus the list wasn't a "BC" list, it was a list of the people that voted for Jacey, so were assumed to all be guilty. That list also included the good mage and Tom Sawyer, and didn't have you or Nightson on it. Even lynching all of that list one day after another, there were no guarantees.

I wasn't likely to have much faith in a BC list that included me.:D
Add:I doubt Gunner would have either if he had lived.

the WORST elf
18 Nov 07, 01:41:20 PM
Well, stuff like Thinker being stupid and a Lizard Man suddenly appearing sure helped distract the town.

Plus the list wasn't a "BC" list, it was a list of the people that voted for Jacey, so were assumed to all be guilty. That list also included the good mage and Tom Sawyer, and didn't have you or Nightson on it. Even lynching all of that list one day after another, there were no guarantees.

I wasn't likely to have much faith in a BC list that included me.:D
Add:I doubt Gunner would have either if he had lived.

Exactly, and then ELV was working with you behind the scenes, and he would tell us who you were planning on reading each night. We waited until it was his "turn" to protect you and that was that. :)

dancer_rnb
18 Nov 07, 01:41:31 PM
Has anyone said what happened to Tom Sawyer?

ELV
18 Nov 07, 01:45:02 PM
Damian used his ability to fireball one player who honestly role claimed on Tom Sawyer when it appeared that Damian was going to get lynched on Day 4.

Spenser, was Damian the only player to have something like that? We were wondering if James had something similar or was working with someone who did when he was trying to get Damian to role claim that same day or day 5.

SkepticTank
18 Nov 07, 01:51:50 PM
You should see our gmail inboxes. There are literally several hundreds of emails of our discussions and plans.

Take away all the credit from us that you want, the fact of the matter is we did what was needed, including winning almost all of Spenser's little games and controlling the information.

Yup, about 100 a day after I was recruited. Plus I was doing PMs with the reds on IIDB and here with a few townies still.

Also, not to over-state my own importance, but the BC recruiting me provided a ton of info, and helped us kill IM, Bey and MP. If not for that, it could have lasted longer. At the same time, I fucked up and forgot about IM's ring and we (BC) wasted a night kill by attacking him.

If Spenser had decided to tell IM that he defended against me that could have changed everything right there.

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 02:20:29 PM
Spenser might as well have just God-killed the whole town day 1 instead of dicking around with everyone for his amusement.

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 02:25:23 PM
Obviously I'm unbalancing if even after everything that could go wrong did and I still almost clinched it by myself.

Say what?

You died as soon as you outlived our usefulness, just like everyone else did. If you'd have been recruitable, we would've had the mayor on our side and it would have ended all the quicker. Plenty of things were going wrong for us as well, like your failed recruit, but we adapted.

You should see our gmail inboxes. There are literally several hundreds of emails of our discussions and plans.

Take away all the credit from us that you want, the fact of the matter is we did what was needed, including winning almost all of Spenser's little games and controlling the information.

Seems pretty easy when you guys get to work together, have better abilities and items and can kill off anyone who opposes your schemes as well as having the GM let you get the halberd and then uncurse you just for the hell of it. You guys also had a voting majority for the most part since half the town didn't even participate.

Spenser
18 Nov 07, 02:26:32 PM
Spenser might as well have just God-killed the whole town day 1 instead of dicking around with everyone for his amusement.

You're a sore fucking loser cause every one had plenty of chance the whole game.

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 02:30:50 PM
Spenser might as well have just God-killed the whole town day 1 instead of dicking around with everyone for his amusement.

You're a sore fucking loser cause every one had plenty of chance the whole game.

I had fun the whole time. The fun stopped when the game ended and people were calling me a liar and saying the town lost because my actions were detrimental to the town, but no one has given any suggestions to what I could have done better. I put a lot of effort into all of these games and the time I spent on this instead of working cost me over $200. I don't begrudge that. I love these games. What bothers me is people making it personal.

I don't care who won. I care about people being assholes.

Sentinel
18 Nov 07, 02:30:51 PM
How did damain get uncursed again?

Pavlov's Dog
18 Nov 07, 02:31:51 PM
Plus the list wasn't a "BC" list, it was a list of the people that voted for Jacey, so were assumed to all be guilty. That list also included the good mage and Tom Sawyer, and didn't have you or Nightson on it. Even lynching all of that list one day after another, there were no guarantees.

Also, I was a maybe on the list, so they viewed me and I came back as good. Plus that list didn't include who was a red. That list wasn't anything special at all.

Pavlov's Dog
18 Nov 07, 02:34:30 PM
I had fun the whole time. The fun stopped when the game ended and people were calling me a liar and saying the town lost because my actions were detrimental to the town, but no one has given any suggestions to what I could have done better. I put a lot of effort into all of these games and the time I spent on this instead of working cost me over $200. I don't begrudge that. I love these games. What bothers me is people making it personal.

I don't care who won. I care about people being assholes.

I never said you were a liar or your actions were detrimental to the town. I am just calling bullshit on the claims that you guys had the Black Circle wrapped up in a pretty little bow, and the town lost because they were stupid.

Spenser
18 Nov 07, 02:34:56 PM
Spenser might as well have just God-killed the whole town day 1 instead of dicking around with everyone for his amusement.

You're a sore fucking loser cause every one had plenty of chance the whole game.

I had fun the whole time. The fun stopped when the game ended and people were calling me a liar and saying the town lost because my actions were detrimental to the town, but no one has given any suggestions to what I could have done better.

I don't care who won. I care about people being assholes.

I don't understand where the liar comment came from but you did in a sense get yourself on the higher priority for the BC to kill list. The biggest mistake I feel that was made by the town early was Jacey letting it be known what his role was, it may have gotten him info but it got him lynched for sure. And if he would have lived his curse easily could have gotten him used cause unlike ST he had to give his kill to the highest bidder and the BC had the most gold at first, COAS ended up the richest in the end.

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 02:38:58 PM
I had fun the whole time. The fun stopped when the game ended and people were calling me a liar and saying the town lost because my actions were detrimental to the town, but no one has given any suggestions to what I could have done better. I put a lot of effort into all of these games and the time I spent on this instead of working cost me over $200. I don't begrudge that. I love these games. What bothers me is people making it personal.

I don't care who won. I care about people being assholes.

I never said you were a liar or your actions were detrimental to the town. I am just calling bullshit on the claims that you guys had the Black Circle wrapped up in a pretty little bow, and the town lost because they were stupid.

I'm not claiming that. I'm saying I did the best I could with what I knew and I think I played ok.


How did damain get uncursed again?

Apparently, when I uncursed myself, it also uncursed damian. That doesn't even make sense to me. If the halberd redirects that I should have still been cursed and would have known.

jamesbannon
18 Nov 07, 03:06:31 PM
Let's not become personal guys, it's just a game. Black won because they played it better than the town, but that wouldn't have been hard considering most of the town were playing like a bunch of jackasses on Days 1 & 2 especially. Even after it became obvious that Damian and ELV were evil after Tears got hit the town still didn't vote correctly.

Yes there was some risk attached to PM-ing behind the scenes, but what else could we do? Given the completely stupid moves by some of the town players we had no choice. We didn't co-ordinate well but that was because we didn't really know who was who until they were either lynched or hit and the extra hit man caused some confusion.

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 03:08:35 PM
I'm not upset about the game. I'm upset about things that happened afterwards.

mrickaby
18 Nov 07, 03:08:42 PM
A questions I have, and I apologize if it doesn't make sense, I have spent the last couple hours in a bar watching football:

What where the actual victory conditions for everyone?

I am trying to think of others, bit the whole game didn't make sense until we got ST.

Everything seemed pretty balanced, because everybody felt the game was unbalanced against them. It is like the officials in any sport, if everybody either thinks they were against them or didn't notice them, then they were pretty fair.

jamesbannon
18 Nov 07, 03:20:36 PM
I think everyone had the same winning conditions: majority or equal numbers with the mayor. What didn't help was that both teams of bad guys could recruit and kill whilst the town could only kill by actually hiring a killer. What I didn't realise that the neutrals were actually the red wizards. I'll remember that for next time.

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 03:20:55 PM
That's just a list of a lot of people he was talking to... I don't think Tears trusted more than one or two people on that list. He didn't trust me, that's for sure, or it would have saved Gunner from making the hitlist.

I trusted you and Gunner. You guys were dead.

mrickaby
18 Nov 07, 03:39:52 PM
I think everyone had the same winning conditions: majority or equal numbers with the mayor. What didn't help was that both teams of bad guys could recruit and kill whilst the town could only kill by actually hiring a killer. What I didn't realise that the neutrals were actually the red wizards. I'll remember that for next time.

But the reds could only kill the same way as the town could, and the blacks could only recruit once. What I am the most curious about win condition is those of COAS, ST, and Jacey.

Monkey Pants
18 Nov 07, 03:50:49 PM
I still don't get how Tears and I left the whole BC list out there and I think the only one who died was me having trillian murdered

Well, stuff like Thinker being stupid and a Lizard Man suddenly appearing sure helped distract the town.

Plus the list wasn't a "BC" list, it was a list of the people that voted for Jacey, so were assumed to all be guilty. That list also included the good mage and Tom Sawyer, and didn't have you or Nightson on it. Even lynching all of that list one day after another, there were no guarantees.

I have to agree here.

I was good - and the only other person I knew to be good was Tom Sawyer.

In fact, when your list came out - we took it as a sign that you and your cabal were the scum, and that you were simply sowing misdirection.

I was genuinely surprised when as the new mayor I was given your role (and James's) and it turned out you were both good after all.

Ambivalent
18 Nov 07, 03:51:06 PM
People saying the town played dumb are dumb. How the fuck were we supposed to know anything? The bad guys did have a huge advantage, and trying to deny it is silly. Spenser himself said he was tired of the town winning.

The game was still fun, and I don't begrudge anyone their victory, but I sure won't take the blame for the loss either.

The scum didn't need to play brilliantly. They could bullshit at will, and nothing could be proven to the town. Nothing.

That they didn't get anyone lynched on day one was a huge improvement over the usual mob play, so kudos to them for that.

SkepticTank
18 Nov 07, 03:54:23 PM
But the reds could only kill the same way as the town could, and the blacks could only recruit once. What I am the most curious about win condition is those of COAS, ST, and Jacey.

Jacey was with the town.

COAS and I were with the Red team (though we didn't know our teammates or even if we had any initially). Red team condition was to eliminate black and town.

Black win condition was to eliminate Red and town.

What exactly was the town win condition because Tears didn't know what my condition was. I was able to stay alive longer because I lied to Tears (and Bey) and told them my condition was to eliminate black and have more gold than any townies.

So, the town could hire me and Jacey to kill, and in fact they did, but they made some bad choices early on.

Monkey Pants
18 Nov 07, 04:15:20 PM
What exactly was the town win condition because Tears didn't know what my condition was. I was able to stay alive longer because I lied to Tears (and Bey) and told them my condition was to eliminate black and have more gold than any townies.

We were never told what our win condition was, or what anyone else's win condition was.

We assumed that the Blacks were standard scum - so we had to eliminate them all to win.

But we didn't know whether or not there even were Reds to start with. And we certainly didn't know whether the Red agenda meant that the town had to kill them, or whether some kind of joint victory was possible.

I heard a theory that your win condition was to amass a certain amount of gold.

I also heard a theory that your win condition was to have more than half the town recruited by the time the Blacks were destroyed (which is not the same as your actual win condition - since by this condition the game would end immediately if the Blacks were destroyed and you would lose if there were less of you than us at that point; and it would also mean that you would be firmly on the side of the town, as long as we didn't kill the Blacks too quickly before you'd had chance to recruit enough people).

And I also heard a theory that you weren't a team at all, just a collection of individuals who each had a personal win condition of surviving till the end regardless of whether the Blacks or Town won (and you would share a victory with whichever team won if you were still alive).

Ironically, the only theory I didn't hear until I was recruited was that you were simply rival scum and had the same win condition as the Blacks.

Laughing Dog
18 Nov 07, 04:23:43 PM
Spenser might as well have just God-killed the whole town day 1 instead of dicking around with everyone for his amusement.

You're a sore fucking loser cause every one had plenty of chance the whole game. Some of us kept arbitrarily being hit by lightning because of a God who did not appreciate the value of free speech. :eek:

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 04:23:50 PM
But the reds could only kill the same way as the town could, and the blacks could only recruit once. What I am the most curious about win condition is those of COAS, ST, and Jacey.

Jacey was with the town.

COAS and I were with the Red team (though we didn't know our teammates or even if we had any initially). Red team condition was to eliminate black and town.

Black win condition was to eliminate Red and town.

What exactly was the town win condition because Tears didn't know what my condition was. I was able to stay alive longer because I lied to Tears (and Bey) and told them my condition was to eliminate black and have more gold than any townies.

So, the town could hire me and Jacey to kill, and in fact they did, but they made some bad choices early on.

I believed you at first about being able to win with the town, but after day 3 (or maybe it was some time during day 3, I don't remember), I asked about your win conditions again and I had the impression you were just telling me what I wanted to hear. Based on that and the link Nightson had provided, I looked up "Red Wizards Dungeons and Dragons" or something like that on Google and found something about Red Wizards of Thay working for money and something else about neutral alignment. At that point I was pretty sure you didn't win with us but it didn't really matter yet because my idea was to use you to get rid of the Black Circle and then lynch you.

ETA: http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/fr/fr6.htm

http://www.mjyoung.net/dungeon/char/clas030.html


The White Robes represent good, the Red Robes are neutral, and the Black Robes are evil

Later in the game, damian mentioned the same thing (in reference to IM and Raistlin).

I wonder what I would have done differently if I had looked that up on day 1.

SkepticTank
18 Nov 07, 04:29:31 PM
Hell, I didn't even know I was a "Red Wizard" at first. I knew I had neutral alignment, and that there "may" be other neutrals. And as I said my win conditions were to eliminate all town and blacks. At first I thought maybe there were two evil factions, one being BC and one being RW. I assumed there were other neutrals but I didn't know we were the RWs.

COAS, why didn't you ever respond to my PMs? Was it LaughingDoglizard getting lynched that got you scared, or what?


At that point I was pretty sure you didn't win with us but it didn't really matter at that point because my idea was to use you to get rid of the Black Circle and then lynch you.

Which was how I expected to be used. I wasn't sure how I was going to get out of the town-lynch, it just worked out that way.

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 04:59:26 PM
Well, stuff like Thinker being stupid and a Lizard Man suddenly appearing sure helped distract the town.

Plus the list wasn't a "BC" list, it was a list of the people that voted for Jacey, so were assumed to all be guilty. That list also included the good mage and Tom Sawyer, and didn't have you or Nightson on it. Even lynching all of that list one day after another, there were no guarantees.

I have to agree here.

I was good - and the only other person I knew to be good was Tom Sawyer.

In fact, when your list came out - we took it as a sign that you and your cabal were the scum, and that you were simply sowing misdirection.

I was genuinely surprised when as the new mayor I was given your role (and James's) and it turned out you were both good after all.

There was no cabal.

ELV
18 Nov 07, 05:01:24 PM
It sure as hell seemed like there was. I'm not saying there was one, you've convinced me reasonably well of that, but at the time I wouldn't have believed it and I'm not the only one.

Nightson
18 Nov 07, 05:01:26 PM
"Neutrals" being their own scum faction didn't really make sense. The Red Wizards from Forgotten Realms as a faction would be evil, because well, they're very not nice guys. The Red Wizards from Dragonlance would be neutral but they wouldn't be scum.

Tears On My Dong
18 Nov 07, 05:12:59 PM
It sure as hell seemed like there was. I'm not saying there was one, you've convinced me reasonably well of that, but at the time I wouldn't have believed it and I'm not the only one.

Jacey did say some weird stuff.

Pavlov's Dog
18 Nov 07, 05:14:16 PM
It sure as hell seemed like there was. I'm not saying there was one, you've convinced me reasonably well of that, but at the time I wouldn't have believed it and I'm not the only one.

Especially when Jacey claimed there was one and that it would kill anybody who voted to lynch him.

jamesbannon
19 Nov 07, 04:00:08 AM
Spenser might as well have just God-killed the whole town day 1 instead of dicking around with everyone for his amusement.

You're a sore fucking loser cause every one had plenty of chance the whole game. Some of us kept arbitrarily being hit by lightning because of a God who did not appreciate the value of free speech. :eek:

That was funny! :D

jamesbannon
19 Nov 07, 04:01:18 AM
What exactly was the town win condition because Tears didn't know what my condition was. I was able to stay alive longer because I lied to Tears (and Bey) and told them my condition was to eliminate black and have more gold than any townies.

We were never told what our win condition was, or what anyone else's win condition was.

We assumed that the Blacks were standard scum - so we had to eliminate them all to win.

But we didn't know whether or not there even were Reds to start with. And we certainly didn't know whether the Red agenda meant that the town had to kill them, or whether some kind of joint victory was possible.

I heard a theory that your win condition was to amass a certain amount of gold.

I also heard a theory that your win condition was to have more than half the town recruited by the time the Blacks were destroyed (which is not the same as your actual win condition - since by this condition the game would end immediately if the Blacks were destroyed and you would lose if there were less of you than us at that point; and it would also mean that you would be firmly on the side of the town, as long as we didn't kill the Blacks too quickly before you'd had chance to recruit enough people).

And I also heard a theory that you weren't a team at all, just a collection of individuals who each had a personal win condition of surviving till the end regardless of whether the Blacks or Town won (and you would share a victory with whichever team won if you were still alive).

Ironically, the only theory I didn't hear until I was recruited was that you were simply rival scum and had the same win condition as the Blacks.
Sarpedon had it right. The town was to eliminate both black and red.

dancer_rnb
19 Nov 07, 06:51:59 AM
Spenser might as well have just God-killed the whole town day 1 instead of dicking around with everyone for his amusement.

You're a sore fucking loser cause every one had plenty of chance the whole game. Some of us kept arbitrarily being hit by lightning because of a God who did not appreciate the value of free speech. :eek:
There is a reason people tell you not to stick that fork into an eletrical outlet again, LD.

dancer_rnb
19 Nov 07, 07:10:26 AM
Seems to me its not enough to be right. You have to convince others of it.

Tom Sawyer
19 Nov 07, 08:01:41 AM
I knew that I was right to try and stab Nightson on the first day. Even though I was drunk when I did it and doing so inadvertently outed my role and ended up getting fireballed as a result, it was still a good call.

Jacey really should have handled it better when ELV outed his role. His reaction took the heat off of ELV and put it towards Jacey and the group he was with and that was a key thing in getting the numbers to swing in the BC's favour instead of the town's. The thing ot remember is that if you're trying to defend yourself, don't say that you're part of a group that includes evil people, because you'll get lynched and suspicion will fall on your group.

Also, I think I did try to take the sword once at night. Maybe it was because I did in in the Peanut Gallery instead of PM'ing Spenser.

Marcus
19 Nov 07, 08:04:50 AM
Good Game to all the bad guys. :o

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 08:37:25 AM
Seems to me its not enough to be right. You have to convince others of it.

I don't know what else I can do. We've played enough games for people to notice I don't lie and I'm almost always right. People prefer to believe liars who use bad logic.

the WORST elf
19 Nov 07, 08:50:52 AM
Seems to me its not enough to be right. You have to convince others of it.

I don't know what else I can do. We've played enough games for people to notice I don't lie and I'm almost always right. People prefer to believe liars who use bad logic.

I understand that actually conceding that our ability to persuade them was pretty good would somehow be physically painful for you, but whatever. Jacey's wonderful logic was "i'm going to a bachelor party. Vote ELV. If anyone is against this, you are next. Good bye."

You may not lie, and may even be "almost always right," like you enjoy stating repeatedly. However, right now, you're wrong, and are lying to yourself.

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 09:08:18 AM
Seems to me its not enough to be right. You have to convince others of it.

I don't know what else I can do. We've played enough games for people to notice I don't lie and I'm almost always right. People prefer to believe liars who use bad logic.

I understand that actually conceding that our ability to persuade them was pretty good would somehow be physically painful for you, but whatever. Jacey's wonderful logic was "i'm going to a bachelor party. Vote ELV. If anyone is against this, you are next. Good bye."

You may not lie, and may even be "almost always right," like you enjoy stating repeatedly. However, right now, you're wrong, and are lying to yourself.

Your ability to persuade them was impressive. That was very well played, my former friend. I can't do that. I'm not a natural leader like you. I'm not one of the cool kids. You could (and did) lead people right off a cliff. People wouldn't follow me out of a burning building. Next game I might vote for you for mayor instead of Spenser, depending on if you are scum or not.

What am I wrong about? What am I lying about?

ETA: I understand that correcting your slanderous lies or even apologizing would somehow be physically painful for you, but whatever.

jamesbannon
19 Nov 07, 09:11:08 AM
I do wish you guys would stop sniping at each other, it's a friggin' game for goodness sake. The town played badly and allowed the bad guys to win, so maybe we'll learn something for the next game.

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 09:17:36 AM
I do wish you guys would stop sniping at each other, it's a friggin' game for goodness sake. The town played badly and allowed the bad guys to win, so maybe we'll learn something for the next game.

I'm not upset about the game at all. I'm upset about things said afterwards.

Sarpedon
19 Nov 07, 09:19:11 AM
Though I do have to repeat my concern that the GM, by introducing all that extra stuff into the game, effectively aided the scum by distracting the town from the basic activity of lynching the scum.

For example. damian was identified relatively early. Every time we tried to lynch him, something would come up, ie the pool that turns people into lizards, etc.

the WORST elf
19 Nov 07, 09:34:58 AM
Your ability to persuade them was impressive. That was very well played, my former friend. I can't do that. I'm not a natural leader like you. I'm not one of the cool kids. You could (and did) lead people right off a cliff. People wouldn't follow me out of a burning building. Next game I might vote for you for mayor instead of Spenser, depending on if you are scum or not.

What am I wrong about? What am I lying about?

ETA: I understand that correcting your slanderous lies or even apologizing would somehow be physically painful for you, but whatever.

I am not apologizing for lies i made within the context of this game. That's beyond silly (as is calling it "slanderous." You're not really a mayor).

Day 3 has pretty much said it all.

Jacey, post 58: "Vote ELV. No not giving any reasons. There are enough people who know I'm good and not evil to know thats not a capricious pick."

Yeah, wonderful logic there.

You, a few posts later: "Don't be hasty. The scroll said Jacey's lust is for money. That would probably make him a thief or something."

Did you know he wasn't a thief? Or were you just wrong?

Then Jacey in post 199: "I'm good. I must've missed where anything was said in the game thread about a scroll. I'm not commenting on it. There are a few people I've been in contact with who know I'm good, so if you're against me and want to lynch me, you paint a giant target on yourself. "

Still no info or logical basis for his vote whatsoever.

And then post 271: "I'm loathe to say anything. I have a small band of goods and some evils. I've already shared what I know with them privately since I suspect I may die tonight. If you are evil please vote for SkepticTank, he's pro-town and voting for him instead of ELV gives us a good list to work off tonight and tomorrow."

Oh yeah, that was a good call there.

Good team was full of bad logic, no logic, misinformation, withholding information, voting without giving reasoning, and in the case of ST, was outright wrong.

In hindsight, it's quite easy to see why the "dumb sheep," such as you guys treated them," weren't so eager to follow.

the WORST elf
19 Nov 07, 09:36:53 AM
Though I do have to repeat my concern that the GM, by introducing all that extra stuff into the game, effectively aided the scum by distracting the town from the basic activity of lynching the scum.

For example. damian was identified relatively early. Every time we tried to lynch him, something would come up, ie the pool that turns people into lizards, etc.

That was the equivalent of "hurry up, she's bleeding out, we need to close up that artery and....oh look, a butterfly!"

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 09:41:46 AM
When did I become Jacey?

I am not upset about anything that happened in the game.
I am not upset about anything that happened in the game.
I am not upset about anything that happened in the game.

It's just a fucking game.

Fuck.

the WORST elf
19 Nov 07, 09:49:49 AM
This reply to jamesbannon is the post you neg-repped me for, for "false accusations:"

"And finally, we have a mayor that seemed to be doing whatever Jacey said, and won't tell us the roles of the fallen. Shouldn't he at least, for the sake of the town, confirm whether the info about Jacey's role from mrickaby and ELV is accurate? That would give us some insight as to whether we should go after them or start to question the secret circle."

I'd like to know a) where my "lie" was, and b) how it didn't relate to the game.

And then, a few posts later, you said i was "being an asshole" for it.

wtf do you expect me to do, not get sick of it and eventually retaliate?

You can say it's not about the game all you want, but it sure looks to me like it was about the game, and that you were taking my actions in the game personally, as if you really were the mayor of this small town full of lizardmen and a sword with shit and piss all over it, and a big statue of spenser in town square.

dancer_rnb
19 Nov 07, 10:20:12 AM
This reply to jamesbannon is the post you neg-repped me for, for "false accusations:"

"And finally, we have a mayor that seemed to be doing whatever Jacey said, and won't tell us the roles of the fallen. Shouldn't he at least, for the sake of the town, confirm whether the info about Jacey's role from mrickaby and ELV is accurate? That would give us some insight as to whether we should go after them or start to question the secret circle."

I'd like to know a) where my "lie" was, and b) how it didn't relate to the game.

And then, a few posts later, you said i was "being an asshole" for it.

wtf do you expect me to do, not get sick of it and eventually retaliate?

You can say it's not about the game all you want, but it sure looks to me like it was about the game, and that you were taking my actions in the game personally, as if you really were the mayor of this small town full of lizardmen and a sword with shit and piss all over it, and a big statue of spenser in town square.

Where did the info about Jacey's role come from?

Ambivalent
19 Nov 07, 10:32:32 AM
Though I do have to repeat my concern that the GM, by introducing all that extra stuff into the game, effectively aided the scum by distracting the town from the basic activity of lynching the scum.

For example. damian was identified relatively early. Every time we tried to lynch him, something would come up, ie the pool that turns people into lizards, etc.

It was a new and quite complicated game, so bumps in the road should be expected. If the town wants to chase the butterfly, then that's our fault.

However, it didn't help that the BC managed to get most of the clues. I think future games should make hints available to everyone one way or another, not just those with a lot of computer time and quick fingers.

dancer_rnb
19 Nov 07, 11:09:06 AM
Seems to me its not enough to be right. You have to convince others of it.

I don't know what else I can do. We've played enough games for people to notice I don't lie and I'm almost always right. People prefer to believe liars who use bad logic.

Serious question. What do you do when you are an evil character?

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 11:21:14 AM
Seems to me its not enough to be right. You have to convince others of it.

I don't know what else I can do. We've played enough games for people to notice I don't lie and I'm almost always right. People prefer to believe liars who use bad logic.

Serious question. What do you do when you are an evil character?

I haven't had the opportunity to play evil yet.

Probably fos the other bad guys if they use bad logic.

Ambivalent
19 Nov 07, 11:23:36 AM
You're just not going to let me live down that tie game, are you? ;)

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 11:25:09 AM
http://www.rantsnraves.org/showthread.php?p=106958#post106958

Also, regarding "you guys played like shit and that's why you lost": what should I have done differently?

ELV
19 Nov 07, 11:59:41 AM
I already posted that in the day #8 thread, but I think it needs some extra clarification.


STFUed about your little group. By talking about it, you made yourselves big targets. The way you distributed or failed to distribute information also worked against you. You might have known who we were, but you didn't convince the town of that, even after they knew you were good. You guys seemed really arrogant with the way you conducted yourselves, Jacey's threats and you, Tears, saying how fucked we were. You thanked people (people who were actually townies) for outing themselves as bad guys by not supporting you (when you gave them no real reason to) in the middle of the bandwagon against me (for which you honestly had no factual support of) on day 3. You either assumed that your group was not infiltrated by either the BC or the Red Wizards (incorrectly) or were unconcerned with cooperating with the reds. That hurt you later when people you cooperated with got killed and outed as reds (such as sentinel) and bought primarily Damian more time to live. You gave us opportunities to stir up confusion and conflict to harm your credibility and bury your theories in the mass of a flamewar so that the town would forget. All you did was get yourself killed without getting a chance to really rally a majority of the town against us. If you had waged a sort of guerrilla war against us you probably would have been more successful, IMO.

Whether or not you had a group yourself Tears is mostly irrelevant. Jacey at least stated very explicitly that he did. The way that you coordinated with him, at least to outsiders, associated you with Jacey's group as well as his threats to kill people who disagreed with him. And you did thank people, who were townies, for outing themselves as bad guys for voting for your buddy Jacey who was basically playing pretty shittily.

You weren't responsible for most of the bad play, that falls on Jacey, but the way that you associated with him and stood up for him once he started to panic and started threatening townies you simultaneously lost credibility with the town and put yourself right at the top of our (the BC's) hitlist.

If you had separated yourself from Jacey and tried to moderate the discussion a bit and used real logic and reasoning instead of supporting Jacey to a T (in a quite arrogant manner I may add) you might have been able to save Jacey and you certainly would have saved your credibility with the town.

If you knew who most of the Black Circle were, that information was more valuable than any single town player. But by supporting Jacey so much when he made all those mistakes, you traded that information (because not enough people trusted you) for Jacey's life. But you weren't even able to save Jacey or yourself, so you basically sacrificed your credibility for nothing. It would have been better to try to save Jacey, but be willing to let him get lynched if it would allow you to rally the town behind the information you gained and kill off the BC you knew of. Especially since trying so hard to save him didn't even work.

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 12:12:59 PM
I agree. It all happened so fast at the end of day 3. I didn't have time to clarify anything. That was the main reason I thought the whole maneuver was obviously shady. It came in the last minutes of the day (which was 2 real life days). I thought people should have seen through that, especially after Jacey and I both died and were confirmed Good. Basically, I was just trying to save Jacey because I knew he was good, but not condoning his actions. It was the same as the thing with th1nk3r.

I just hope no one lets that happen again. Last minute insta-bandwagon of a good special is a scum tell. Damian defending you so hard was a scum tell. Damian twisting my words and lying about what I had said was a scum tell.

dancer_rnb
19 Nov 07, 12:21:34 PM
Tears, how did you know Jacey was good? Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't see how.

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 12:28:20 PM
Jacey was Kelemvor. I got the description from Nightson and it matched what ST had said about Jacey. Jacey had been looking for a Cleric to uncurse him and he turned into a panther to kill at night. After Day 3, I started wondering if Nightson had given me that to trick me into defending Jacey as a set-up.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Kelemvor#Mortal_days


The Curse of the Lyonsbanes had been passed down for generations in Kelemvor's family. All this started from the greedy mercenary Kyle Lyonsbane, who was utterly ruthless in extracting payment, to the point that one day he left his sorceress companion on the battlefield to die so that he could plunder the enemy's stronghold. In her last breath, the sorceress bestowed a curse upon Kyle. From that day on the mercenary can never attempt to perform an act for any type of reward without becoming a panther, and transform to human only by taking a life. Under the curse, only unselfish and heroic acts were permitted. The curse was passed on to Kyle's son, but it was reversed, making him unable to perform any act without asking for a reward, or suffer the metamorphosis. This resulted in a long line of mercenaries in the Lyonsbane family, and as family member grew old it become more dangerous for those who live around them, since the seniors could no longer remember if a reward had been offered. Thus it became the responsibility of every Lyonsbane to slay their father when they reached the age of fifty.

Kelemvor was the seventh descendant of Kyle. Because of the curse, Kelemvor had become a panther and mercilessly killed his own cruel father when trying to protect an innocent house maiden. After that he evaded the Lyonsbane castle, and became a sellsword, as most of his family members did. However because of the curse, many of his comrades died in front of his very eyes, and all he could do was turn away. Kelemvor dreamed of a day when he could perform heroic deeds free from the curse, become a true hero as those stories he had read when he was a child in the Lyonsbane castle.

Jacey
19 Nov 07, 12:37:31 PM
Jacey really should have handled it better when ELV outed his role. His reaction took the heat off of ELV and put it towards Jacey and the group he was with and that was a key thing in getting the numbers to swing in the BC's favour instead of the town's. The thing ot remember is that if you're trying to defend yourself, don't say that you're part of a group that includes evil people, because you'll get lynched and suspicion will fall on your group.

You believed me when you shouldn't have, and didn't when you should have. Can't do anything about that. spenser, trillian, bey, they always think I'm scummy whether I am or not.

I said that I was in contact with evil people. That was trillian, who I never gave a scrap of helpful info too and was still talking to even after I'd paid for her death.

the WORST elf
19 Nov 07, 12:43:42 PM
Where did the info about Jacey's role come from?

A few places. One was Trillian picking up bits and pieces from talking to people. The other was mrickaby. He won one of those little minigames and got info about Jacey, that he "lusted for gold" and that he had some connection to a panther. So mrickaby was telling the truth when he came out and confessed he heard that "jacey has a lust for gold." Later on, when the pressure was on ELV, ELV claimed to have viewed Jacey and got the panther info. So, both piece of information were 100% true, they just lied about the circumstances.

Tom Sawyer
19 Nov 07, 12:49:06 PM
Jacey really should have handled it better when ELV outed his role. His reaction took the heat off of ELV and put it towards Jacey and the group he was with and that was a key thing in getting the numbers to swing in the BC's favour instead of the town's. The thing ot remember is that if you're trying to defend yourself, don't say that you're part of a group that includes evil people, because you'll get lynched and suspicion will fall on your group.

You believed me when you shouldn't have, and didn't when you should have. Can't do anything about that. spenser, trillian, bey, they always think I'm scummy whether I am or not.

I said that I was in contact with evil people. That was trillian, who I never gave a scrap of helpful info too and was still talking to even after I'd paid for her death.

If you had contact with trillian that showed she was evil, then your first post after that contact should have been "trillian is evil. Here's why ...". Anything other than that and you're harming the town by concealing information about the evil people. Saying that you're in a group with evil people and we'll regret it if we lynch you is not a post that helps the town and just gives a valid reason to kill you, since there's no excuse to be in contact with known evil people and not out them.

All your actions did was to get the town to stop from lynching an evil person and lynch a good special while removing the shadow of doubt from that evil person. True, I didn't believe you when the post-game wrap up shows that I should have, but that is because your actions indicated someone who shouldn't have been believed. Don't threaten people and let them know you have information about evil people that you're not going to be sharing for secret reasons or you'll get killed, because 9 times out of 10, the correct move in that case is to kill the person saying that, either because they're evil or because they're helping the evils by concealing information from the town.

Jacey
19 Nov 07, 12:54:32 PM
If you had contact with trillian that showed she was evil, then your first post after that contact should have been "trillian is evil. Here's why ...". Anything other than that and you're harming the town by concealing information about the evil people. Saying that you're in a group with evil people and we'll regret it if we lynch you is not a post that helps the town and just gives a valid reason to kill you, since there's no excuse to be in contact with known evil people and not out them.

All your actions did was to get the town to stop from lynching an evil person and lynch a good special while removing the shadow of doubt from that evil person. True, I didn't believe you when the post-game wrap up shows that I should have, but that is because your actions indicated someone who shouldn't have been believed. Don't threaten people and let them know you have information about evil people that you're not going to be sharing for secret reasons or you'll get killed, because 9 times out of 10, the correct move in that case is to kill the person saying that, either because they're evil or because they're helping the evils by concealing information from the town.

Wrong. Also irrelevant, we weren't lynching trillian, I'd already bought ST's contract. I wanted to go after ELV next.

The correct move is not to kill that person because evil people don't say that. It's a fake evil tell, anyone who's played the game knows it means nothing.

When's thinkers game start

the WORST elf
19 Nov 07, 12:59:29 PM
The correct move is not to kill that person because evil people don't say that. It's a fake evil tell, anyone who's played the game knows it means nothing.



Sweet, I'm going to do this from now on when I'm evil so Jacey trusts me :D

trillian
19 Nov 07, 01:02:59 PM
I said that I was in contact with evil people. That was trillian, who I never gave a scrap of helpful info too and was still talking to even after I'd paid for her death.

The way you acted was plenty info for us to know you had a role with decent powers. I actually wanted to recruit you the night we tried to kill you and recruit Tears (both failed). You would have been up for recruit again but we weren't sure how you avoided the kill and didn't want another failure, so when that unplanned last minute lynching happened it was kind of a bonus for us.

In the end, having you dead and getting ST as a recruit worked out. Having a good/neutral killer opposing us would have changed the game dramatically.

Tom Sawyer
19 Nov 07, 01:04:46 PM
Wrong. Also irrelevant, we weren't lynching trillian, I'd already bought ST's contract. I wanted to go after ELV next.

The correct move is not to kill that person because evil people don't say that. It's a fake evil tell, anyone who's played the game knows it means nothing.

When's thinkers game start

So, the fact that we weren't voting to lynch trillian at the time meant that not mentioning that you knew she was evil was a good move? It's a team game and the fact that you'd taken care of it yourself and had decided who else you wanted to go after, so the rest of the town didn't have to bother with anything and just listen to you for reasons that you were keeping to yourself is just bad gamesmanship.

Everything can be a fake evil tell and everything is a fake good tell. You've played enough games to know that, so don't pretend like making stupid statements like that is some sort of advanced move or something that should be automatically dismissed. I was waiting for you to say something to dismiss it, but you didn't, so I kept my vote on you.

Jacey
19 Nov 07, 01:10:04 PM
we weren't sure how you avoided the kill

I had a one time night kill protection.

<3 trillian <3

Jacey
19 Nov 07, 01:12:39 PM
So, the fact that we weren't voting to lynch trillian at the time meant that not mentioning that you knew she was evil was a good move? It's a team game and the fact that you'd taken care of it yourself and had decided who else you wanted to go after, so the rest of the town didn't have to bother with anything and just listen to you for reasons that you were keeping to yourself is just bad gamesmanship.

It was going to come out that trillian was evil from the mayor. Telling in the thread that she was evil meant that the BC could safely pile on and distance themselves from her, much like when I was outed as a bad guy day 1 in a game and we still f'n won.

You're right, it is a team game. I wanted my team to win.

Pavlov's Dog
19 Nov 07, 01:13:30 PM
You believed me when you shouldn't have, and didn't when you should have. Can't do anything about that.

You could not lie.

SkepticTank
19 Nov 07, 01:15:11 PM
So, the fact that we weren't voting to lynch trillian at the time meant that not mentioning that you knew she was evil was a good move?

I thinks so. What if he had said "Well, I know Trillian is evil, but don't lynch her, because I've already hired the assassin to kill her" tells the other evils too much info. They could protect her, and they would know that there is a hired-gun and Jacey knows who the hired-gun is.

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 01:16:09 PM
I am not apologizing for lies i made within the context of this game. That's beyond silly (as is calling it "slanderous." You're not really a mayor).

Do I really have to say it again?


Day 3 has pretty much said it all.

Jacey, post 58: "Vote ELV. No not giving any reasons. There are enough people who know I'm good and not evil to know thats not a capricious pick."

Yeah, wonderful logic there.

Then Jacey in post 199: "I'm good. I must've missed where anything was said in the game thread about a scroll. I'm not commenting on it. There are a few people I've been in contact with who know I'm good, so if you're against me and want to lynch me, you paint a giant target on yourself. "

Still no info or logical basis for his vote whatsoever.

And then post 271: "I'm loathe to say anything. I have a small band of goods and some evils. I've already shared what I know with them privately since I suspect I may die tonight. If you are evil please vote for SkepticTank, he's pro-town and voting for him instead of ELV gives us a good list to work off tonight and tomorrow."

Oh yeah, that was a good call there.

Here's a little tip: to the left of my posts there is a big "Tears In The Rain". If the name is something different, I didn't post it. What point are you trying to make here?


You, a few posts later: "Don't be hasty. The scroll said Jacey's lust is for money. That would probably make him a thief or something."

Did you know he wasn't a thief? Or were you just wrong?
No, and no. I didn't know about the Jacey-Kelemvor thing until around 5pm Nov 10, which is post 160 Day 3. I considered it a possibility he was a thief or something. I also mentioned prostitute as a possibility. My reasoning at that point for thinking Jacey was most likely good was that Spenser would not have outed an evil character like that. If mrickaby was lying, then he was trying to get Jacey killed which still indicates Jacey is probably Good. That was another thing I thought people should have been able to see and I pointed it out in the thread.


Good team was full of bad logic, no logic, misinformation, withholding information, voting without giving reasoning, and in the case of ST, was outright wrong. Ok, so was the good side stupid or not? Make up your mind.


In hindsight, it's quite easy to see why the "dumb sheep," such as you guys treated them," weren't so eager to follow.

How did I treat anyone like "dumb sheep"?

Jacey
19 Nov 07, 01:28:12 PM
So, the fact that we weren't voting to lynch trillian at the time meant that not mentioning that you knew she was evil was a good move?

I thinks so. What if he had said "Well, I know Trillian is evil, but don't lynch her, because I've already hired the assassin to kill her" tells the other evils too much info. They could protect her, and they would know that there is a hired-gun and Jacey knows who the hired-gun is.

NO WAY I COULDN'T POSSIBLY HAVE THOUGHT THAT AND TOTALLY LAID OFF TRILLIAN SO THEY'D NOT BOTHER TO PROTECT HER OMG LOL

jamesbannon
19 Nov 07, 01:28:22 PM
Look guys, basically it was fucked up. Everybody should have seen through ELV's stunt, but didn't. It was also obvious that both Damian and ELV were evil after Tears got hit. We had at least 2 obvious targets to lynch that would have given us a chance, but we didn't do it for whatever reason. I figured COAS for the prostitute quite early as I recall from one the few posts she made in the threads but I bought the idea that prostitute was basically at worst a neutral role from people's remarks about previous games.

Jacey
19 Nov 07, 01:28:43 PM
You believed me when you shouldn't have, and didn't when you should have. Can't do anything about that.

You could not lie.

I couldn't? That wasn't in my role description

Sentinel
19 Nov 07, 01:29:39 PM
He was suggesting that, next time, you could try not lying.

Pavlov's Dog
19 Nov 07, 01:33:23 PM
Yes. Instead of the townies praying to figure out when to believe and when not to believe, you could just not lie.

jamesbannon
19 Nov 07, 01:33:49 PM
He was suggesting that, next time, you could try not lying.
The basic game set-up almost requires that people lie. Being new to the game I don't recall lying anywhere in thread or in PMs as I didn't want people to catch me out, but any experienced player should be able to carry it off and appear to have a consistent story.

Pavlov's Dog
19 Nov 07, 01:36:52 PM
He was suggesting that, next time, you could try not lying.
The basic game set-up almost requires that people lie. Being new to the game I don't recall lying anywhere in thread or in PMs as I didn't want people to catch me out, but any experienced player should be able to carry it off and appear to have a consistent story.

No it doesn't. The good guys do not have to lie except in the rarest of cases.

the WORST elf
19 Nov 07, 01:38:14 PM
btw, PD was cursed so he wasn't allowed to lie. Now that's inspiring.

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 01:38:20 PM
He was suggesting that, next time, you could try not lying.
The basic game set-up almost requires that people lie. Being new to the game I don't recall lying anywhere in thread or in PMs as I didn't want people to catch me out, but any experienced player should be able to carry it off and appear to have a consistent story.

No. The good side should never lie in the thread. In PM's, I never outright lied but I did try to give some false impressions as to how much I believed someone.

jamesbannon
19 Nov 07, 01:48:19 PM
Hmm.... I wouldn't really have a problem lying in the game if that was required by my role. The reason I didn't was because I'm not experienced enough to be consistent and because, being a townie, I figured it wasn't in the town's interest anyway. We were at enough of a disadvantage to begin with with 2 groups of bad guys to find without lying in thread.

trillian
19 Nov 07, 01:56:09 PM
I lied in the James Bond one when I was "Q" and had info that Tears was "good". I said someone sent me a dossier but it was really a pair of special binoculars I had in the night to view him.
It would have worked out as a good move had Tears, in fact, not been evil instead! I had my nights protection planned already to waste any attempted kill.

the WORST elf
19 Nov 07, 02:02:40 PM
I lied in the James Bond one when I was "Q" and had info that Tears was "good". I said someone sent me a dossier but it was really a pair of special binoculars I had in the night to view him.
It would have worked out as a good move had Tears, in fact, not been evil instead! I had my nights protection planned already to waste any attempted kill.

There are definitely some exceptional circumstances where lying as a good townie can be a good idea. Generally though it just backfires.

SkepticTank
19 Nov 07, 02:06:42 PM
I lied in the James Bond one when I was "Q" and had info that Tears was "good". I said someone sent me a dossier but it was really a pair of special binoculars I had in the night to view him.
It would have worked out as a good move had Tears, in fact, not been evil instead! I had my nights protection planned already to waste any attempted kill.

And I called you on that, but nobody believed me. Of course I was evil in that game....

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 02:07:52 PM
I lied in the James Bond one when I was "Q" and had info that Tears was "good". I said someone sent me a dossier but it was really a pair of special binoculars I had in the night to view him.
It would have worked out as a good move had Tears, in fact, not been evil instead! I had my nights protection planned already to waste any attempted kill.

And I called you on that, but nobody believed me. Of course I was evil in that game....

and I fos'ed you...

SkepticTank
19 Nov 07, 02:09:30 PM
I lied in the James Bond one when I was "Q" and had info that Tears was "good". I said someone sent me a dossier but it was really a pair of special binoculars I had in the night to view him.
It would have worked out as a good move had Tears, in fact, not been evil instead! I had my nights protection planned already to waste any attempted kill.

And I called you on that, but nobody believed me. Of course I was evil in that game....

and I fos'ed you...
and you were on my team, asshole.

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 02:14:25 PM
You seemed suspicious to me.

Ambivalent
19 Nov 07, 02:26:38 PM
I hope those of you who claim have the entire game figured out on day one will next time write up a nice bullet point post on who we should lynch, why, and when. Preferably while the game is still ongoing, and not after the fact.

While I hoped he was, I still couldn't be sure Tears was good until Spenser posted his end game role list. I smell a lot of bull caca.

dancer_rnb
19 Nov 07, 02:29:23 PM
Just read the description on MonkeyPants. He was going to be my next read.:eek:

Since I won't be in the next game, could I ask one of you to kill Spenser for me?:D

Pavlov's Dog
19 Nov 07, 02:35:52 PM
I lied in the James Bond one when I was "Q" and had info that Tears was "good". I said someone sent me a dossier but it was really a pair of special binoculars I had in the night to view him.
It would have worked out as a good move had Tears, in fact, not been evil instead! I had my nights protection planned already to waste any attempted kill.

There are definitely some exceptional circumstances where lying as a good townie can be a good idea. Generally though it just backfires.

Yeah. Like if you are a special and someone corners you and is asking about your role it is fine to say that you are ordinary town.

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 02:39:20 PM
I hope those of you who claim have the entire game figured out on day one will next time write up a nice bullet point post on who we should lynch, why, and when. Preferably while the game is still ongoing, and not after the fact.

While I hoped he was, I still couldn't be sure Tears was good until Spenser posted his end game role list. I smell a lot of bull caca.

I didn't have it all figured out on day 1 and never claimed to. It wasn't until day 3 that I had a good idea of what was going on.

the WORST elf
19 Nov 07, 02:42:25 PM
I lied in the James Bond one when I was "Q" and had info that Tears was "good". I said someone sent me a dossier but it was really a pair of special binoculars I had in the night to view him.
It would have worked out as a good move had Tears, in fact, not been evil instead! I had my nights protection planned already to waste any attempted kill.

There are definitely some exceptional circumstances where lying as a good townie can be a good idea. Generally though it just backfires.

Yeah. Like if you are a special and someone corners you and is asking about your role it is fine to say that you are ordinary town.

There's that. It can also be a good idea to lie about things like who is being protected on a given night, but that doesn't have the side effect of misleading town.

Spenser
19 Nov 07, 03:16:39 PM
The fact that people get so worked up about this game, and yet still want to play the next one is what I love about this shit.

Love
Spenser

Ambivalent
19 Nov 07, 03:17:42 PM
I didn't have it all figured out on day 1 and never claimed to. It wasn't until day 3 that I had a good idea of what was going on.

That wasn't really directed at you, it was towards comments like

Everybody should have seen

It was also obvious that both Damian and ELV were evil after Tears got hit

We had at least 2 obvious targets to lynch

etc

Tears On My Dong
19 Nov 07, 04:34:22 PM
The fact that people get so worked up about this game, and yet still want to play the next one is what I love about this shit.

Love
Spenser

Anyone who gets "worked up" about a game should be shot.

Tenuous
19 Nov 07, 04:51:41 PM
I lied in the James Bond one when I was "Q" and had info that Tears was "good". I said someone sent me a dossier but it was really a pair of special binoculars I had in the night to view him.
It would have worked out as a good move had Tears, in fact, not been evil instead! I had my nights protection planned already to waste any attempted kill.

There are definitely some exceptional circumstances where lying as a good townie can be a good idea. Generally though it just backfires.

Yeah. Like if you are a special and someone corners you and is asking about your role it is fine to say that you are ordinary town.

In the werewolf game where I was the lunatic, I lied and made out that I was just a normal townie trusted by the lunatic, since I had to make some contact and wanted to put some doubt as to whether I was the lunatic or not after I correctly predicted loony kills. Seemed a reasonable precaution, although turned out to not be necessary.

Nightson
19 Nov 07, 04:56:02 PM
I lied in the James Bond one when I was "Q" and had info that Tears was "good". I said someone sent me a dossier but it was really a pair of special binoculars I had in the night to view him.
It would have worked out as a good move had Tears, in fact, not been evil instead! I had my nights protection planned already to waste any attempted kill.

There are definitely some exceptional circumstances where lying as a good townie can be a good idea. Generally though it just backfires.

Yeah. Like if you are a special and someone corners you and is asking about your role it is fine to say that you are ordinary town.

Actually the best solution is to either claim if the majority of the town is voting you or tell the person to stop role fishing because it's scummy.

christ on a stick!
20 Nov 07, 09:55:52 AM
Hey ST, the reason I didn't respond to your PM was pretty retarded, by the time I got to the airport for Vegas last week I realized my laptop bag didn't have my laptop in it :o So I missed out on the last few days of the game.... still trying to wade through and see how it all turned out. Hey, I have some gold, right? Can I still buy anything after the fact? :p

I'd love to play again and be more active but just can't work it right now, not home enough during the days to plan and communicate effectively. Drat! :mad:

SkepticTank
20 Nov 07, 09:58:03 AM
Hey ST, the reason I didn't respond to your PM was pretty retarded, by the time I got to the airport for Vegas last week I realized my laptop bag didn't have my laptop in it :o So I missed out on the last few days of the game.... still trying to wade through and see how it all turned out. Hey, I have some gold, right? Can I still buy anything after the fact? :p

I'd love to play again and be more active but just can't work it right now, not home enough during the days to plan and communicate effectively. Drat! :mad:

Really, it looked like you had logged in to the forum, and read my PMs. I thought you just didn't trust me, so wouldn't admit to being a Red, which was understandable after dancer_rnb shredded the Lizard Dog thing.

christ on a stick!
20 Nov 07, 10:00:26 AM
Oh I read my PMs, but decided to wait and think and respond later, by which point I didn't have my computer.

Although in hindsight I probably wouldn't have trusted you anyway. :D

jamesbannon
20 Nov 07, 10:07:26 AM
I didn't have it all figured out on day 1 and never claimed to. It wasn't until day 3 that I had a good idea of what was going on.

That wasn't really directed at you, it was towards comments like

Everybody should have seen

It was also obvious that both Damian and ELV were evil after Tears got hit

We had at least 2 obvious targets to lynch

etc
They were certainly obvious to me.

Nightson
20 Nov 07, 06:46:26 PM
I think the funniest thing that happened in the game was damian finding out bey had lost his night protection. I think I deleted the email, but it was pretty hilarious.

beyelzu
20 Nov 07, 07:53:34 PM
yeah i had no idea that skeptic had been made black.